My international nightmare!!!

[gt96g]

I held off on telling this story untill it was settled but it has been and I wanted to get the ordeal off my chest. Back in septemeber I sold a guitar online. I tried to sell it on TB but becasue it was a guitar and do to the economy it wasn't moving so I ebayed the thing. I decided to open it to international bidders as i had done many times before with no issues. Anyway, the winner ended up being this guy in france. After the auction was over the guy sent me an email that was totally in french. It was at this point I considered cancelling the transaction because communnication was difficult as I don't speak french. Now I am not one of these english centric people as I am bilingual but most of the time when I have sold things internationally the buyer spoke at least some english. But I pressed on and decided to complete the transaction.
When I sent the thing I sent it USPS which I had done before with international sales but now realize was a mistake. The guitar was shipped on sept 1st but 2 1/2 weeks passed and the guy still had not recieved the thing. He eventually filed a claim with a certain online money swapping service which I will not name as I have a feeling that doing that will get this thread yanked. Lets call this company Money Buddy. So money buddy reviewed the case and eventually refunded the guys money as the told me that the tracking info from USPS was not good enough. So at this point I was out a guitar and my money.
It was then I contacted USPS to see if I could get the required documents from the french postal service so I could submit them to money buddy on my appeal and get the decision reversed. At this point I had the documentation money buddy said they would need to reverse the ruling but they said what I had submitted was invalid becasue the signature was not legible enough for them and unless I could provide additional proof the ruling would stand. The documents had stated the buyer got the item on sept. 23 like two days after the money was reverted to him and he sat quiet and didnt say a thing to money buddy. eventually he left me positive feedback stating he had recieved the guitar perhapse thinking that would be sufficient. I then spoke to money buddy and told them of the feedback at this point they said they could not use feedback as delivery confimation. So they said they would need to contact the buyer to confirm delivery and the email would go out in a day or two. i called back in that time frame and the email had still not gone out. It was at this point the email was sent but it was sent in english, more on that later. After the email had been sent they would need to give the buyer three days, I called back three days later. It was at this point money buddy thought they could get my money back to me as the evidence was building in my favor and then I was told they would need to resend the email to the guy as it was not sent in french. This whole episode dragged on for 2 and a half months I eventually got my money back in early november but this episode taught me two things. 1. only ship internationally with UPS cause USPS does not ship the item all the way, and that Money Buddy needs to be regualted by someone as they are a monopoly and essentially and online bank so they should fall under some banking regulations. nobody monitors them and they answer to no one.

[Bassslayer69]

The EXACT same thing happened to me! only its STILL ongoing, and it was shipped in July to Russia!
My MONEY BUDDY account has since been sent to collections, and I'm still out the bass, and now have bad credit....
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[FL Knifemaker]

The ONLY way I will ship internationally is using the BUYERS Fedex or DHL account. That allows the buyer to fill out the shipping and customs forms any way they choose and Email them to me. After that, I just pack and call the carrier......After that, THEY can track it and worry about it. Everyone in the custom knife biz is going in this direction. I love my INTL customers but if they want to buy on the American market with their strong $$$, that's how they MUST do it USPS is a *#)& JOKE!! Just try collecting a claim. Cheap yes!! I use them for T shirts ONLY.

[selfblessed]

Wow. 2 and half weeks seems a bit early to be making a claim that you ripped him off. I personally would wait a month. Sorry to hear that. My motto is USPS in the states and UPS out bound...though I rarely go international.

[Rawkabilly]

I feel for you, man. Something similar to this happened to me a few years ago. I sold a bass to an overseas buyer who filed a claim a couple days before the bass arrived. It took me over 2 months and whole lot of heartache to get my money back. I ended up losing most of the money to overdraft fees caused by "Money Buddy" freezing the funds in my bank account.
I refuse to use "Money Buddy" ever again and will only sell to buyers in the US and Canada.

[BobKos]

The only way to sell international is to insist on a bank wire transfer. i will discount the deal $20 to compensate the buyer for the extra hassle. I transfer to a 'buffer' account that never really has any money in case the account is somehow compromised. No Money Buddy chargeback bull****.

FWIW - USPS has NEVER been acceptable to Money Buddy for international deals. They can't trace it properly. As stated above - International deals need to go UPS or FedEx.

[gt96g]

wow i'm amazed to see so many people experienced the same thing I did.

[TC2112]

I used to have a pretty thriving online vinyl album business until the entire "big auction company" / Money Buddy merger monopoly communist regime started the "screw the small business guy" procedures.

never again will I deal with the machine. I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. There are many more stories with more tragic endings.

[mmbongo]

Took me one time to learn my lesson, luckily it was just some DVD's. Since USPS is not trackable outside of the US, all the buyer has to do is say they never got it. You can't prove otherwise.

[MIJ-VI]

I believe that every musician feels some of the heat when they learn of a fellow player getting burned.

Info on prevention & remediation: How to avoid getting ripped off on the internet

[air_leech]

I dont get the USPS critique.
I bought 8 basses from people in the US (three from Talkbass), all were shipped via USPS int'l airmail (the necks were taken off to fit in the standard box), the pricing was 1/4 of what UPS wanted and I didnt have the slightest problem with any of them.

yes, the shipping took forever, basically due to the local custom authorities which seem to either be lazy or just hold off everything they dont know how to price as long as possible except for two times when the buyer insisted on USPS express mail (still was only about 40 or 60 bucks more expensive and one bass shipped in a case without taking it apart) and I got the basses shipped to my door in less than a fortnight.

I also bought a bass from sweden and a g****r from japan, both shipped express for no additional fees with no problems whatsoever.


in every transaction I made it clear that I, the buyer, takes the risk for anything happening after the bass leaves the US and thats pretty fair I think.

[gt96g]

Originally Posted by air_leech

I dont get the USPS critique.
I bought 8 basses from people in the US (three from Talkbass), all were shipped via USPS int'l airmail (the necks were taken off to fit in the standard box), the pricing was 1/4 of what UPS wanted and I didnt have the slightest problem with any of them.

yes, the shipping took forever, basically due to the local custom authorities which seem to either be lazy or just hold off everything they dont know how to price as long as possible except for two times when the buyer insisted on USPS express mail (still was only about 40 or 60 bucks more expensive and one bass shipped in a case without taking it apart) and I got the basses shipped to my door in less than a fortnight.

I also bought a bass from sweden and a g****r from japan, both shipped express for no additional fees with no problems whatsoever.


in every transaction I made it clear that I, the buyer, takes the risk for anything happening after the bass leaves the US and thats pretty fair I think.

well you were definatly more patient than my buyer

[MaHei]

Outside the US you can't track from USPS but their local partner (national postal service) will give you the desired information using the same tracking number.

[Caca de Kick]

^Not true. The newest USPS system does track outside the US.
The last 3 basses I sent USPS, you can track every country (customs office) the airplane landed on it's way to its final destination.

Snags to indeed suck, but all these shipping companies have issues in one way or another. And snags are a small percentage compared to the thousands of successful tranactions taking place everyday.

[air_leech]

Originally Posted by MaHei

Outside the US you can't track from USPS but their local partner (national postal service) will give you the desired information using the same tracking number.

thats true and every time I purchased a bass or effect I had a hair splitting time period of 2-4 weeks between the notification that my package left the US on USPS' site and the notification that my package is being processed by the custom authorities on the Israeli postal service site.

I have to admit that although I was already accustomed to the lazy ass service of Israeli post I did have a few sleepless nights when a pre-EB Stingray has gone through the longest "off the radar" phase of any bass I purchased and spent more than a month at the customs before the USPS tracking number could yield any result on Israeli post's website.
I dont know how it is in France but no one in the postal services here that I spoke with could tell me where, physically, the package was before it cleared customs.

[ghoulbug]

Wow.... I feel for you man...
It amazes me that a scam corporation like "Money Buddy" can keep on operating at the level that they do, pretty much dominating every facet of online business.

One has to wonder why so many sellers are downright adamant about only using Money Buddy to receive payment. Even coming from a stictly buyer's point of view (I've never sold before), Money Buddy is NOT going to get their filthy hands on my money ever again.

It's a shame that after freezing my account for "safety precautions" they will not name, they still have an iron grip on all my personal and credit card information (can't delete a thing). It's hilarious that they recently started advertising to me (via email) to please suck their dongs to unlock the account, since they so graciously started allowing locked accounts holders to withdraw their own goddamn money.

Let this whole thread be a warning to others.
Do not give Money Buddy the opportunity to ruin your life. There are MANY other methods of payment that were all safely used worldwide before the scam company came into being.

[Ronen]

Trust! This is the key word for doing online business in general and especially international.
In order to get trust between the sides there must be a fluent communication and a fast clear stream of information, both ways.
If you don't understand the other party or you feel they're not 100% honest you should call the deal off right there.
As my fellow Israeli TBer here I had also bought a few basses on EBay and TB, from the US. My experience is very similar. I've never had any problems with USPS except for the long waiting time. However I don't know what would have happened if something went wrong with USPS.
As a general rule I'd say keep away from EBay. You can sell international through TB as well. Most buyers will have no problem paying via bank wire.
Sell only to buyers who totally understand the risks but be aware that as someone who lives on the other side of the globe I have no way to control what you'll do once I send my payment. Again - trust.

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

^Not true. The newest USPS system does track outside the US.
The last 3 basses I sent USPS, you can track every country (customs office) the airplane landed on it's way to its final destination.

Snags to indeed suck, but all these shipping companies have issues in one way or another. And snags are a small percentage compared to the thousands of successful tranactions taking place everyday.

Sorry man. Still no tracking to every country. I know, I ship internationally almost on a weekly bassis. They will even TELL you it's trackable as they take your package and your money. Then you provide the buyer the numbers and NOTHING. Try to track in yourself, NOTHING. I have boxes of T Shirts lost in their system right now between Florida and the Russian Federation for over 30 days. Tracking?? NOT!! I would NEVER ship anything of value using them. Also, try collecting from USPS on an insurance claim. It's almost FUTILE. Taking the USPS cheap way out is a major risk. If you can afford the risk, then using them is fine.

[RWP]

I stopped shipping ebay sales Internationally after a huge problem with an item going to Italy. I probably over reacted but I don't sell a ton and it's just not worth the exposure.

[Ronen]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

Sorry man. Still no tracking to every country. I know, I ship internationally almost on a weekly bassis. They will even TELL you it's trackable as they take your package and your money. Then you provide the buyer the numbers and NOTHING. Try to track in yourself, NOTHING. I have boxes of T Shirts lost in their system right now between Florida and the Russian Federation for over 30 days. Tracking?? NOT!! I would NEVER ship anything of value using them. Also, try collecting from USPS on an insurance claim. It's almost FUTILE. Taking the USPS cheap way out is a major risk. If you can afford the risk, then using them is fine.

Take under consideration that the most problems occur after the package has left the US. It is no longer handled by USPS but by whatever local currier, usually the local post services. My point is that there are parts in the world you should expect problems and there are others with much less risk.