My thoughts about the Tour de France controversy.

vene-nemesis · #1 07-23-2010, 03:19 PM

I find it incredibly stupid and hypocritical that there is this fairplay and morality debate on a sport thats based mainly on the consumption of performance enhancement drugs.

EricF · #2 07-23-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

I find it incredibly stupid and hypocritical that there is this fairplay and morality debate on a sport thats based mainly on the consumption of performance enhancement drugs.

Really? This statement just ruined any credibility you might have in debating this topic.

MatticusMania · #3 07-23-2010, 03:23 PM

I say let all sports players take whatever enhancement drugs they want to, and then lets cut their salaries by 75%

Oh, Im sorry, what exactly is the controversy? Im too strung out to look it up...

Fontaine · #4 07-23-2010, 03:27 PM

The Tour de Bore!!!

spade2you · #5 07-23-2010, 03:35 PM

If there's a way to cheat, people cheat. Sports, taxes, etc. Very few can't be corrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fontaine

The Tour de Bore!!!

Not that I encourage the carnage, but seriously? This has been a pretty action packed Tour. With riders cracking one by one.

vene-nemesis · #6 07-23-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricF

Really? This statement just ruined any credibility you might have in debating this topic.

So my credibility has been blown because what i say its not true? Like in "oh they are true gentlemen who would never do that and the teams that have hired them would never allow that".

Do you happen to know any amateur ciclist? And any who has done the jump from amateur to pro?

i_got_a_mohawk · #7 07-23-2010, 03:39 PM

Sad but true, they just need to keep trying to catch out the people who cheat. But there will always be people who cheat that are one step ahead sadly.

(almost) Regardless of the sport.

spade2you · #8 07-23-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

Do you happen to know any amateur ciclist? And any who has done the jump from amateur to pro?

Yes and yes. What's your point?

vene-nemesis · #9 07-23-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spade2you

If there's a way to cheat, people cheat. Sports, taxes, etc. Very few can't be corrupted.

Yep and asking for some sort of fairplay and manners on a cheaters game is ridiculous at best.

MJ5150 · #10 07-23-2010, 03:43 PM

Let them cheat. Look how boring baseball is now that we don't have multiple guys blasting 60+ homers every season.

-Mike

spade2you · #11 07-23-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

Yep and asking for some sort of fairplay and manners on a cheaters game is ridiculous at best.

I'd argue with you, but I think your last statement nullified any credibility.

I had a full summer of cheaters game. I excell at cheaters climbing and cheaters time trialing, but not so much the cheater sprint.

EricF · #12 07-23-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

So my credibility has been blown because what i say its not true? Like in "oh they are true gentlemen who would never do that and the teams that have hired them would never allow that".

Your creditbility is gone becuase you characterize the sport as being (to use your words) "based mainly on the consumption of performance enhancement drugs". Statements like this generally come from people who know nothing of the sport other than the few snippets of mis-represented information put forth by media sources that could also not care less about the sport.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

Do you happen to know any amateur ciclist? And any who has done the jump from amateur to pro?

Yes. I raced at a serious amateur level for over 10 years, and I know quite a few people that race/raced professionally. Any other questions?

vene-nemesis · #13 07-23-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spade2you

Yes and yes. What's your point?

Ask the pro how it happened! And once hes got the hype that youre interested on him ask how much more demanding it got. Watch for the facial expressions on how he struggles on what to tell and what not to.

Then ask the amateur if he ever wanted to go pro. If he did, ask him why does he think he didnt make the leap. If youre lucky like me this guy might tell you some crap happening at amateur level that only gets worse as you go pro. The part i didnt like about the story of this guy is that he was 17 years old and felt like crap because he was never going to be anything else than a guy in tights that was never going to get an oportunity to go pro because he didnt feel comfortable about using epo and some other crap which names I cant remember.

vene-nemesis · #14 07-23-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricF

Your creditbility is gone becuase you characterize the sport as being (to use your words) "based mainly on the consumption of performance enhancement drugs". Statements like this generally come from people who know nothing of the sport other than the few snippets of mis-represented information put forth by media sources that could also not care less about the sport.

Let me remind you that Spain is not america, over here cicling is a big sport, theres a lot of knowlegeable people about it everywhere, and we do have real media sources covering it. Plus over here you get to know many amateurs that usually tell you the crap thats undergoing on the sport they love and they are not happy about it.

Quote:

Yes. I raced at a serious amateur level for over 10 years, and I know quite a few people that race/raced professionally. Any other questions?

Ever thought about going pro?

elgecko · #15 07-23-2010, 04:11 PM

Wasn't there already a TDF thread?

XtreO · #16 07-23-2010, 04:12 PM

Petacchi for President (of drug use)!

spade2you · #17 07-23-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

Ask the pro how it happened! And once hes got the hype that youre interested on him ask how much more demanding it got. Watch for the facial expressions on how he struggles on what to tell and what not to.

K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vene-nemesis

Then ask the amateur if he ever wanted to go pro. If he did, ask him why does he think he didnt make the leap. If youre lucky like me this guy might tell you some crap happening at amateur level that only gets worse as you go pro. The part i didnt like about the story of this guy is that he was 17 years old and felt like crap because he was never going to be anything else than a guy in tights that was never going to get an oportunity to go pro because he didnt feel comfortable about using epo and some other crap which names I cant remember.

Why don't most people go pro? Lack of talent, correct training, and/or time. In the US, cycling isn't really widely encouraged. By
the time I started racing, I was already the same age as most pros, who had been training a decade earlier.

I hate to burst your bubble, but most domestic pros simply don't make enough $ to dope and can't afford being caught due to doping.

Deluge Of Sound · #18 07-23-2010, 04:42 PM

If someone came up to you and said "take this, you'll be better at your job," would you do it?

spade2you · #19 07-23-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

If someone came up to you and said "take this, you'll be better at your job," would you do it?

Of course I could say, "sure" under the premise I don't get tested at my level. However, my hematoglobin and hematocrit are fairly high naturally, so I doubt I'd see much benefit without having to put myself at risk for a blood clot leading to heart attack, DVT, stroke, etc.

vene-nemesis · #20 07-23-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

If someone came up to you and said "take this, you'll be better at your job," would you do it?

The short answer is yes, but this thread is not about that. I just wanted to share my thoughts about morality/ethics/manners being so relevant in a sport were dope is almost mandatory.