NCAA Football 2012 - Week 13

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GregC

A nugget from Tuberville's exit: http://texastech.247sports.com/Artic...r-table-106322
I'm sure this kind of thing has happened before, but that's pretty awkward!

I have to wonder how legit that report is, coming from a young kid, but who knows. Two sides to every story and all.

Did you guys see the latest ESPN report on the top 10 football coaching jobs (NFL or college)? I find this list rather hard to believe myself, but here it is. Might make for good discussion.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...llege-football

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Did you guys see the latest ESPN report on the top 10 football coaching jobs (NFL or college)? I find this list rather hard to believe myself, but here it is. Might make for good discussion.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...llege-football

What do you find hard to believe?

For me this list makes sense in an "on paper" sort of way (although I know next to nothing about NFL organizations so I have no idea about those). Best job seems kind of subject for what you want out of the job.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

What do you find hard to believe?

For me this list makes sense in an "on paper" sort of way (although I know next to nothing about NFL organizations so I have no idea about those). Best job seems kind of subject for what you want out of the job.

I have problems believing that Bama, LSU, Michigan or Ohio State are above Florida or USC. I also think they placed Notre Dame a little high on the list.

NFL jobs aside, I'd rank college jobs as Florida, Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, LSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, Oklahoma.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I have problems believing that Bama, LSU, Michigan or Ohio State are above Florida or USC. I also think they placed Notre Dame a little high on the list.

NFL jobs aside, I'd rank college jobs as Florida, Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, LSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, Oklahoma.

Yeah, I don't think Michigan is a better job than many of those simply because there is very little instate talent, but you can still recruit kids based on being the most winning college football team and having great facilities.

Ohio State I would have to put pretty high on the list. They have good facilities, good tradition, lots of instate talent that they get first pick of, and an AD that is committed to winning.

USC and Florida I would put in the same boat in that they are in talent rich states and have money but the states they are in are targeted by a lot of other schools for USC the PAC12 and for Florida the whole country.

UGA, LSU and OK I would put on more of a top of the second tier level (I guess Michigan would go there as well). LSU may look odd on this list but I tend to think they are on a peak they will not be able to sustain. They seem like they will always be very good by not great under Miles.

ND is a weird job because of their academic requirements but that job is about to get a lot better after this season. After years of them coming down to Earth, we can expect them to be ranked in the preseason top 5 for the next 5 years no matter what they do.

Texas should be the undisputed number one job but the lucked into the worst time possible to be on a down swing and it looks like they are pulling out of it until Brown is gone. Even with a bunch of other programs in the state and programs outside the state trying to get the talent, Texas seemed to have top choice. Now with A&M having a great season and a bright future in the SEC that might be challenged.

Bama gets their state's talent great tradition yadda yadda

My rankings would be
1)Ohio State (this is not to say they will win NCs just that you are practically guaranteed a nine win season just by showing up)
2)ND
3)Texas (Could easily fall to one of the lower categories if they don't turn it around quick)
4)USC, Florida, Bama
5)LSU(for now could be one category higher), UGA, OK, Michigan

[MJ5150]

I wonder if the UM and OSU fans are not happy that those two jobs were lumped into one.

-Mike

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I wonder if the UM and OSU fans are not happy that those two jobs were lumped into one.

-Mike

Good point, and although Michigan is on a current upswing there is a reason they have been lagging behind in current years and it isn't just the coaching changes.

[Eublet]

Yeah, i meant to put Texas at number two on my list.

[Eublet]

Just released. Alabama is number one in the sec in academics. Some of you are shocked, and probably didn't believe me when i was discussing this a couple weeks ago. Here is the top 25 in the country.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2...-by-academics/

[Lonesomedave]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Just released. Alabama is number one in the sec in academics. Some of you are shocked, and probably didn't believe me when i was discussing this a couple weeks ago. Here is the top 25 in the country.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2...-by-academics/

i'm sorry...that's just hogwash.

any such poll which lists several sec schools and DOESN'T list Vanderbilt is obviously so skewed, so f**ked up, that it does not even bear discussion

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Just released. Alabama is number one in the sec in academics. Some of you are shocked, and probably didn't believe me when i was discussing this a couple weeks ago. Here is the top 25 in the country.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2...-by-academics/

I don't know that these rankings mean all that much because they are based on players graduating as a percentage versus the same as non-players. Plus for this to meaningful I think you would have to look at it over time not a single year which I think this is.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

i'm sorry...that's just hogwash.

any such poll which lists several sec schools and DOESN'T list Vanderbilt is obviously so skewed, so f**ked up, that it does not even bear discussion

They didn't list Vandy because they are only looking at the top 25.

[Lonesomedave]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

They didn't list Vandy because they are only looking at the top 25.

?

do you mean the top 25 in football rankings? if so, i apologize

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

?

do you mean the top 25 in football rankings? if so, i apologize

Yeah, they are looking at just the top 25 in the BCS, but there are a slew of other problems with this study. For instance, Florida's player's graduation rate is fairly low. I assume they are using last year's stats as the current players haven't graduated yet. The problem there is who are they counting as having not graduated? Florida just had a huge number of transfers due to the coaching change and when you are dealing with a relatively small group like 85 players, 10 transfers would make a huge difference if they are counted as not graduating. The study does not make it clear (I looked at New America's actual article).

[Eublet]

Obviously, Vandy is what it is. I'm dispelling the notion purported by some the last few weeks that Alabama isn't graduating players and isn't concerned with academics, only football. What this listing shows is the ranking of schools who are the most successful both on and off the field, dispelling the notion that Alabama is recruiting idiots.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

Yeah, they are looking at just the top 25 in the BCS, but there are a slew of other problems with this study. For instance, Florida's player's graduation rate is fairly low. I assume they are using last year's stats as the current players haven't graduated yet. The problem there is who are they counting as having not graduated? Florida just had a huge number of transfers due to the coaching change and when you are dealing with a relatively small group like 85 players, 10 transfers would make a huge difference if they are counted as not graduating. The study does not make it clear (I looked at New America's actual article).

You think that is unique to Florida?

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

You think that is unique to Florida?

All schools have transfers, but rarely as many as Florida had this year and I used them as an example because I am aware of the situation. This is why it needs to be a study conducted over time for it to have any real significance. Plus being penalized for being a better school overall doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Florida graduates 80% of their students overall where Bama graduates 63% this is because Florida is a more selective school so they get better students so there is a better likelihood of them graduating. Over ten years I would say that Florida and Bama graduate roughly the same percentage of football players, but in this study Florida would be hurt by being a more selective school overall.

[Tractorr]

In other words, this year could be an outlier for Florida and therefore statistically insignificant.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

In other words, this year could be an outlier for Florida and therefore statistically insignificant.

I am hearing you, but am just trying to find a nice way to say you are incorrect. Alabama has been at the top of this category for a few years now in the SEC. That is what I was trying to say a couple weeks ago. In fact, Alabama athletics has led the SEC in many academic statistics for some time now, but the easy knee-jerk generalizations that have no basis in truth whatsoever persist.

My only point in all this isn't that Alabama is #1 or #AnyThingElse really, but that stereotypes are often not true and they die hard. I am reminded of the famous story about Joe Namath when he was asked about by a New York reporter when he was in college if his major at Alabama was in basket-weaving. Joe Namath was obviously ticked off, but in classic Joe Namath style, he just told the man he had switched to journalism because it was easier.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I am hearing you, but am just trying to find a nice way to say you are incorrect. Alabama has been at the top of this category for a few years now in the SEC. That is what I was trying to say a couple weeks ago. In fact, Alabama athletics has led the SEC in many academic statistics for some time now, but the easy knee-jerk generalizations that have no basis in truth whatsoever persist.

My only point in all this isn't that Alabama is #1 or #AnyThingElse really, but that stereotypes are often not true and they die hard. I am reminded of the famous story about Joe Namath when he was asked about by a New York reporter when he was in college if his major at Alabama was in basket-weaving. Joe Namath was obviously ticked off, but in classic Joe Namath style, he just told the man he had switched to journalism because it was easier.

That may be true but this study doesn't really cut it.

Again if you go look at the study the graduation rate at Bama is 63% for all students, for Florida it is 80%.

For football players this study says Bama 60%, Florida 49%. They show how it is calculated and it is for a single year. They do not show prior years. I am saying that last year Florida was likely down because an unusually high number of players likely are considered as not graduating because they transferred because of the coaching change (Muschamp was cleaning house/ players just didn't like the new regime).

I am doing a number of searches and can't find year by year stats so I can't say with any certainty.

I am not knocking Bama by any means. Good on them for getting a majority of their players graduated but this study is just far too narrow to really tell us much. Also, what it does not tell us of any school (Florida included) is how the athletes are treated in school. Are any of these schools (not accusing anyone) going the UNC route where the players don't have to take real classes? There is not a doubt in my mind that some schools really expect their players to go to class and some don't. UNC is a very prestigious and great academic institution and something like that happened there, so it would not surprise me in the least if a school whose reputation was more based around sports than academics was guilty of the same thing. In other words, graduation rate alone is not a great indicator of academic quality.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I have problems believing that Bama, LSU, Michigan or Ohio State are above Florida or USC. I also think they placed Notre Dame a little high on the list.

NFL jobs aside, I'd rank college jobs as Florida, Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, LSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, Oklahoma.

Funny enough - your top 9 ALL fall in the top 15 schools overall as far as football revenue... but you've only got 3 of the top 5.

You're missing:

#1 Texas
#3 Auburn

Another thing to consider when rating coaching jobs is "fan patience" - some schools will give a coach much longer to start winning, while others will toss 'em out without much opportunity.