NCAA Football 2012 - Week 13

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I wonder if the UM and OSU fans are not happy that those two jobs were lumped into one.

Doesn't bother me a bit.

They're very similar schools athletically - especially from a historical perspective. They're both top 10 money machines. They're both in the midwest. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Now if you start trying to lump them together on ACADEMICS, then I would argue.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Just released. Alabama is number one in the sec in academics. Some of you are shocked, and probably didn't believe me when i was discussing this a couple weeks ago. Here is the top 25 in the country.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2...-by-academics/

Oy....

Alabama is number one in the SEC in academics AMONG SEC TEAMS RANKED IN THE TOP 25... and by a metric that really, really does nothing to measure actual academics of the university.

...the New America Foundation bases its rankings on several factors: how a football team’s graduation rate compares to that of the school’s overall male student body, how a team’s black-white graduation gap compares to the male black-white graduation gap in the general student population, and the spread between a football team’s black graduation rate and the school’s overall graduation rate for black men.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Eublet

You think that is unique to Florida?

I think it is unique to schools with a coaching change.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Oy....

Alabama is number one in the SEC in academics AMONG SEC TEAMS RANKED IN THE TOP 25... and by a metric that really, really does nothing to measure actual academics of the university.

Or even academics of the football team. The only thing it shows is that a high percentage of the team graduated as compared to the rest of the university. We have absolutely no information whatsoever about quality of education which is how I would measure "best" (obviously a very difficult thing to measure). Best a graduating players, maybe. Best academically, highly debatable and pretty much impossible to prove.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

Or even academics of the football team. The only thing it shows is that a high percentage of the team graduated as compared to the rest of the university. We have absolutely no information whatsoever about quality of education which is how I would measure "best" (obviously a very difficult thing to measure). Best a graduating players, maybe. Best academically, highly debatable and pretty much impossible to prove.

The argument last week was that Alabama brings in players, puts them in general studies, then sends them off to the NFL, with no concern for academics or the players getting their degrees. I was telling you guys last week that this was flat out wrong. This one article helps support that. Again, do your own research if you don't believe. We have graduated more student athletes in football than anyone in the SEC except Vanderbilt many times over the last 7-8 years. Our academic standards have also risen during this time. I'm NOT concerned with who is #1, #2, or anything else as I mentioned. What I am concerned with is the drive-by posting here that seems to go with a stereotype of the university that has ZERO basis in fact.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

Again if you go look at the study the graduation rate at Bama is 63% for all students, for Florida it is 80%.

This tells me that it is much harder to graduate from Alabama than it is from Florida. That's my interpretation. Have you ever been to Gainseville? *yawn* Boring! It's hard to be a student at Alabama with all the social activity.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by Eublet

The argument last week was that Alabama brings in players, puts them in general studies, then sends them off to the NFL, with no concern for academics or the players getting their degrees. I was telling you guys last week that this was flat out wrong. This one article helps support that. Again, do your own research if you don't believe. We have graduated more student athletes in football than anyone in the SEC except Vanderbilt many times over the last 7-8 years. Our academic standards have also risen during this time. I'm NOT concerned with who is #1, #2, or anything else as I mentioned. What I am concerned with is the drive-by posting here that seems to go with a stereotype of the university that has ZERO basis in fact.

Still don't know what those degrees mean. I was an instructor at UF and guess what revenue sport athletes have their own academic advisers. The reasoning being that they have to be able to help student athletes schedule their classes around practices, workouts, games, etc. I imagine this is true at most schools. The theory among people in the institutions who are not fond of athletics like to claim that they are sending athletes to easy classes. I have never seen any evidence to support this theory but it would be very easy to see this being a possibility. So again it is great for the players that they are getting degrees but a college degree is no indication of having learned anything (as a matter of fact many of my non-athlete friends have degrees and never learned anything )

[basstotheface]

Texas is by far the #1 college FB gig. Destroys any and every college in revenue and fan base, super pretty and really easy to recruit.

[Pilgrim]

Good news for Ol' Wazzu - the WSU investigation found that Marquess Wilson was a loudmouth and Mike Leach did nothing wrong. The PAC-12 investigation isn't in yet, but will surely find the same thing.

Wilson deserted the team because he's a prima donna, and tried to cover it up with accusations. If I were an NFL team, I sure wouldn't waste a draft pick on him.

Watch out for us next year! Go, COUGS!

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

Texas is by far the #1 college FB gig. Destroys any and every college in revenue and fan base, super pretty and really easy to recruit.

I agree and disagree. Definitely have the most money, and there are a lot of reasons for that. However, fan passion for Texas is not the highest in the country, and passion wins over money. Florida is number one because of this. More passion, enough money, practically equal on recruiting grounds, and in the SEC. Florida is definitely the best job in the country. Texas a good second, and they aren't far removed from many other schools after them.

[basstotheface]

I completely disagree on the passion part. By and large UF fans aren't that passionate. No fans in the state of Florida are. Bama, LSU, OSU have more passionate fans.

How in the heck does passion matter in regards to best coaching gig anyways? Are the Raiders the best job in the NFL?

Another big difference is that Texas doesn't really compete against anybody in the state of Texas for recruits. They haven't picked right lately but they still have their pick. (Manziel went to A&M because Texas didn't want him as a QB, same thing with RG3)

Florida has to compete with FSU and to a lesser extent UM for recruits and the last couple years they've lost that battle.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

I completely disagree on the passion part. By and large UF fans aren't that passionate. No fans in the state of Florida are. Bama, LSU, OSU have more passionate fans.

How in the heck does passion matter in regards to best coaching gig anyways? Are the Raiders the best job in the NFL?

Another big difference is that Texas doesn't really compete against anybody in the state of Texas for recruits. They haven't picked right lately but they still have their pick. (Manziel went to A&M because Texas didn't want him as a QB, same thing with RG3)

Florida has to compete with FSU and to a lesser extent UM for recruits and the last couple years they've lost that battle.

I'd argue the same thing for Texas. Texas fans aren't poser-children for passion to say the least. I know there are some, but Texas is from the first team that comes to mind when you think of passionate fan bases. I think there's equal ground there with Florida. Florida wins the passion argument because they're in the SEC.

I honestly don't think Florida has to compete with other schools anymore than Texas does. Texas loses recruits to other teams every year, just like all schools do. Oklahoma, LSU, and Arkansas all cherry pick the state every year. There are just so many there because of the sheer size and population that it's easy for them to get missed and for Texas to not pursue them properly. Florida is recruited by everyone in the country though. Much tougher so of course Florida takes a beating at times. That doesn't mean it isn't worthy though.

Seriously, the right coach at Florida and they are unstoppable on every front. I know, Texas would be the same, but if that were the case, Florida will always be the more attractive spot over Texas. It is after all, the Sunshine State. It's always going to have that over everyone else except for maybe USC. Just the way it is.

Texas is great though. Really, we're nit picking details.

[basstotheface]

Agreed. Both jobs are top 5 on most any list.

[Tractorr]

It will be interesting to see what happens with A&M. From their standpoint I thought the move to the SEC was not good (good for the SEC though). They couldn't have timed the move any better to be on an upswing with a killer QB who they will have for awhile. They truly were never going to get out from Texas' shadow in the Big 12, and I admit I didn't think they would in the SEC either. Now I just don't know they just might be able to pull even with Texas. This of course will be over a number of years, but now it does not seem impossible.

I still argue that Ohio State is the best job in the country. Why on Earth would Meyer leave Florida for a place that wasn't better. They might not be the best in anyone area but they seem to have the highest average of all the important areas. Also, how many FBS teams does Ohio have? Eight! they have freaking eight teams, but you wouldn't even realize it because the Buckeyes are so much further ahead of them. Ohio is close to if not the fourth best state for recruiting and they play in a conference that only has one other state that has decent recruiting anymore (Pennsylvania). The Big 10 has always been a 2 team league. Sure other teams pop up from time to time but over the years it is really just 2 teams, and for whatever reason Michigan doesn't produce that much talent anymore. It is hard to have consistently great recruiting classes without the talent in your backyard.

One note about Florida fans is that the fan base can be deceptive. I agree that the state of Florida has largely horrible fans, but part of the reason why Florida's fan base doesn't seem as good as many is that it is very diverse. There aren't a whole lot of pregame traditions (except getting blackout drunk) but the fans are crazy. There is a reason why every home game from 79 to I believe it was last year were sold out. That is a pretty good stretch if you ask me.

[basstotheface]

I don't blame you for feeling that way about A&M, but it would take decades of losing seasons from UT and multiple NC wins by A&M for them to pull even with UT in Texas.

I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) you haven't spent extensive time in Texas (don't blame you), but it's not even close, it's a much larger gap than even UM and MSU.

[Eublet]

Passion, who's got it? - http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...college_f.html

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

I don't blame you for feeling that way about A&M, but it would take decades of losing seasons from UT and multiple NC wins by A&M for them to pull even with UT in Texas.

I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) you haven't spent extensive time in Texas (don't blame you), but it's not even close, it's a much larger gap than even UM and MSU.

It all depends how the conferences work out etc.

A&M fans are pretty crazy and there are a lot of them. I think you are correct perhaps in Texas but being in the SEC they could turn themselves into a national brand that may go beyond the home state.

Again not overthrowing UT anytime soon but stay competitive in the SEC and the balance of power could shift quickly. Especially because they are not playing Texas' game anymore.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

It all depends how the conferences work out etc.

A&M fans are pretty crazy and there are a lot of them. I think you are correct perhaps in Texas but being in the SEC they could turn themselves into a national brand that may go beyond the home state.

Again not overthrowing UT anytime soon but stay competitive in the SEC and the balance of power could shift quickly. Especially because they are not playing Texas' game anymore.

Plus I think a team like A&M has long been judged within the shadow of a more decorated team. This is very similar to Alabama/Auburn, and it can be a bit unfair. Looking at how competitive Bama/Auburn have been when each other directly, plus against common opponents, one might assume their success with championships was very similar also. Auburn has always been viewed as a very tough team, one you really would rather not have to play, and one that is likely going to beat you more often than you beat them. They just don't quite have the celebrated history in terms of hardware on the trophy shelf for whatever reason, and people can unfairly accuse them of having lacked success because of it.

A&M is a lot like that also, and in today's age it doesn't take long for parity to kick in and put one team over the top very quickly while the other goes spiraling out of control. I think A&M will have a huge selling point coming to the SEC which will help them on the recruiting trail. Many Texas kids will like the allure of staying in state yet playing on the toughest stage. Texas has years of rebuilding ahead of them assuming they can hire the right coach. A&M is practically there right now, and if Manziel can handle the pressure and continue to improve, they'll be in a very good spot to win a NC in the next couple of years.

[Eublet]

I'm going full homer now!

From http://www.rolltide.com/genrel/081912aaa.html:

"As a group, Alabama's more than 525 student-athletes averaged over a 3.0 grade point average for the 2011-12 academic year, including 48 that maintained a career GPA of 4.0. Overall, five teams posted GPAs above 3.5 for the second year in a row.

More than 140 student-athletes earned their degrees over the last year and the latest numbers find that Alabama graduates 74 percent of its student-athletes while the general student population graduates at rate of 66 percent.

"In a year that saw our teams compete at a championship level, it was extremely gratifying to see our student-athletes carry that success over into the classroom," UA Associate Athletics Director for Student Services Jon Dever said. "To have so many of our student-athletes recognized at the national and conference level and to have 16 of our 21 teams earn grade point averages of 3.0 or better is truly impressive."

There were 21 graduates on Alabama football's roster when it won the Tide's 14th national championship in January, one shy of the BCS National Championship Game record the Tide set in 2009. Football also had the second highest graduation rate among schools in the final 2011 BCS top 10 and has posted the second highest graduation rate in the SEC each of the past 3 years.

The SEC led the nation in Capital One Academic All-America honors again this year and the Crimson Tide once again led the SEC, tallying a school record nine honors overall in 2011-12, including a league-best seven first-team honors. Since 2000, Alabama is fifth among all NCAA Division I schools and first in the SEC when it comes to Academic All-America honors with 70. The Tide's nine honors in 2012 also pushed Alabama over 100 honors all-time, to a total of 106, which jumps Alabama to 20th all-time among all NCAA schools and 13th among Division I schools. "

[MJ5150]

Now?

Every team has passionate fans. Every team has fans who are not passionate. There is no team with the most passionate fans.

-Mike