NCAA Football 2012 - Week 13

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

EDIT - According to NCAA stats, Alabama is 4th in passing defense, 8th in passing efficiency defense, so King Biscuit's argument does not hold water. Check for yourself: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.js...iv=IA&site=org

It wasn't an argument, it was a conclusion based on watching the games this year -- not just mine, btw. If you want to just use statistics, than you are going to have a hard to supporting your raw conclusion that the SEC hasn't been dominant the last few years.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by acubass

I think Charlie Strong out coached Muschanp last night.

Big time. Plus the fact that Florida is the most penalized team in the league shows a major lack of discipline, which is a coaching issue.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Where did you get me making that conclusion? Because I asked about a cute GIF depicting the end of SEC dominance? Quite a stretch to put words in my mouth with that one, King Biscuit. Even if you did take that seriously, my citing the end would imply that I acknowledged dominance at some point.

All I'm saying is it's kind of sad to see excuses getting generated 5 days before game time. I guess it's kind of like insurance, you have to get them before you need them.

I posted weeks ago (mid way through the season) that in my opinion the SEC looked mediocre this year, and both Bama's offense and defense were not as good as last year (I've never been that high on AJ either -- a decent field general in the Jay Barker mold, but not really a play maker, and prone to make mistakes at key times like Brodie Croyle + we haven't had a real pass rush this year, and the secondary has been burned constantly). I think ND is worse than Bama, though, but neither team is as good as some of the past BCS champs. ND is a good team that plays ball control football -- Bama is better on both sides of the ball (at this style football) with more depth. Bama should win the game fairly easily. I would have more concern if we were playing a team like Oregon that could spread our defense -- and exploit that poor pass rush and secondary), plus force us into a high scoring Madden match up. I'm not trying to make excuses by giving ND some credit, but rather trying to exercise a little class.


If you don't like the SEC dominance analogy (btw, do you agree the SEC has been dominant as statistics suggest?), statistics would have a hard time explaining Louisville clobbering Florida last night.

Edit: Toaster, as a Notre Dame alumnus, you should be proud of your team, you don't have anything to prove on this board!

[king_biscuit]

I was pulling for Kansas State, but congratulations to Oregon and the fans, they are a fun team to watch!

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

I was pulling for Kansas State, but congratulations to Oregon and the fans, they are a fun team to watch!

Both teams are pretty fun to watch. Not a bad "rebuilding" year for the Ducks, all in all.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Both teams are pretty fun to watch. Not a bad "rebuilding" year for the Ducks, all in all.

My team hasn't even played yet, and I'm already looking forward to next year!

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Fact Check - Alabama and Notre Dame had but one common opponent - Michigan.

Stats (you being a stats connoisseur):



Michigan vs. ND

Michigan ND
1st Downs 19 14
Total Yards 299 239
Passing 138 145
Rushing 161 94
Penalties 5-38 5-49
3rd Down Conversions 8-15 3-9
4th Down Conversions 1-1 0-0
Turnovers 6 2
Possession 33:19 26:41


Alabama vs. Michigan

Michigan Alabama
1st Downs 11 20
Total Yards 269 431
Passing 200 199
Rushing 69 232
Penalties 8-99 7-55
3rd Down Conversions 3-12 3-10
4th Down Conversions 0-1 0-0
Turnovers 3 1
Possession 28:34 31:26


Final Scores:

Michigan 13 ND 6

Michigan 14 Alabama 41

Better hope ND gets a few turnovers... Class dismissed!

[Eublet]

The game will answer all questions.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

I may disagree with toaster's choice of team to support, but as a person, i think he is a great guy....as i pretty much do all my TB friends....and i think you owe him an apology.

I agree, but in fairness to King_B, Toaster doesn't seem able to avoid starting arguments with lots of people who don't share his opinion. He was once again stereotyping someone while speaking derogatively of a group of people (Bama fan's) and speaking a great deal of vitriol long before King_Biscuit retaliated. He seems to think it's his duty to set everyone straight and chastise them for their opinions when they don't line up with his. Sometimes that is easy to ignore, and other times it is not. The common denominator in most all of these NCAA arguments is Toaster.

While King_B's remark post was pretty intense, it was NOT personally directed at Toaster. It was just distasteful in general, as much "comedy" is. However Toasty has repeatedly made derogatory comments about groups of people (Bama fan's in general) while directing them at a single person (usually me or in this case King_B) with the direct intent of lumping said person into that group as well. His comments are always direct and personal, so there should be no surprise when someone finally gets so PO'ed that they retaliate.

Last I'm going to say on this matter. I'd really like to talk about the game, and share my opinion on why I think it'll go a certain way, without being accused of being a Bama Fanboy Idiot, or being delusional, or anything else. It just gets old. I'd be fine with someone sharing their opinion on why they think ND will win. I'd prefer to talk football, but it seems impossible to do lately. I'll continue to try, and if we win, even if we win big, I won't rub salt cause I never have after a win. I also will eat crow and be congratulatory if we lose. It's just a damn football game for cryin' out loud.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Eublet

The game will answer all questions.

QFT. If the game were to be played 10 times, one team would win some, and the other team would win some. But it's one game, and it will only decide who was the better team on the day it's played, which is why watching the game is exciting. The rest is all smoke blowing in the general vicinity of southerly bodily cavities.

[GregC]

Haha, this thread has gotten crazy. It's like the second presidential debate, it's gotten so personal and vitriolic that the entire audience feels awkward. As Jason said, it's ultimately just a football game.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Does anyone have a cute GIF of the exploding myth of SEC superiority?

It certainly wasn't a myth before this season, and the jury's still out on this one. The SEC is 3-3 in bowls, with 3 teams yet to play. If they finish 6-3, I don't see how anyone could claim the conference's run is over.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Wrong. I was pointing out facts about the season which disputed your "completely crushing" post. When Biscuit was confronted with the reality of Alabama's season of predominantly sub-top 30 opponents, he attacked me personally.



Wrong. Did you actually read his post?

Remind us again why you have pledged your allegiance to Notre Dame... followed by the southpark cartoon?

And by the way, I was an Altar boy for 4 years and was never molested, never saw a shred of that kind of activity, and the priests in my parish were the most upstanding and quality individuals you could ever meet. What King Biscuit did was beyond the pale and you know it. Trying to defend that remark is taking Bama Fanboyness to the extreme on your part and you know it.

If a stereotype about a race or sexual orientation, or Islam or Judaism were to be made in the same way that King Biscuit just disparaged Catholics, Infractions and bans would be raining down, and a lynch mob would be forming.



I'll take the heat on this, I have been guilty of this in the past. After you and I came to an understanding a month or so ago, I backed off. Look at my posts if you doubt it. I made a conscious and successful effort to NOT project the all too common negatives I get from Alabama fans onto people in this forum.

In this thread, I was citing stats and performance up until King Biscuit got cute with the furry and chubby remarks. If you dispute this you know how to use the quote feature, point it out. I'll man up and acknowledge it.



That's exactly what I was doing. You fell quiet when I challenged you on your vague statement about physical dominance. And I don't believe I was personal in the way I did it.

Here's the rub - To SOME NUMBER OF ALABAMA FANS, anything that is not 100% Roll Tide is personal. I laid out a pretty strong case that Alabama's superhuman schedule was a myth and crushing 7 sub-top 30 opponents wasn't really that spectacular. I dared Biscuit to refute my argument, and King Biscuit took it personally. Welcome to what SOME NUMBER OF ALABAMA FANS look like. According to your posts you seem to have lived a sheltered life and haven't seen this sort of thing before. I'm sorry you had to be exposed to the ugly side of the Bama Nation.

On the other hand, implying that someone likes being molested by priests is just good 'ol Roll Tide fun, to SOME NUMBER OF ALABAMA FANS, that is.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

\What King Biscuit did was beyond the pale and you know it. Trying to defend that remark is taking Bama Fanboyness to the extreme on your part and you know it.

\

The cartoon I posted was from a Southpark episode; It was supposed to be funny! Now let me get back to being impressed by ND's victory over 2 and 10 Boston College this year

btw, I don't think you dared me to refute an argument as your post above suggests,and if you did, I missed it. You brought up the common opponent game, and I posted actual statistics; which you have ignored because they don't serve your agenda. I have given ND props already in this thread, they played a good schedule, and they deserve to be number one at the moment. The bowl game will determine who the BCS champ is in a few days.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

And don't forget Bridgewater, who was absolutely fearless and brilliant all night.

Totally agree. For the first 2.5 quarters he was unbelievably good, as was pretty much the entire team. They made virtually no mistakes--passes were on target, no drops, tackles were pretty much all dead solid, no turnovers, they had just one penalty. That team just played its ass off for the first 30-some minutes, and the Gators couldn't catch up.

L'ville did catch a few breaks--the opening pass being tipped right into the DB's hands, the double personal foul call combined with the onside kick (awful decision by Muschamp), the 15-yard sideline penalty on the Gators--but they were ultimately better prepared and simply played better.

It certainly didnt hurt Louisville that Charlie Strong coached (and coached against in practice) all the seniors on the Gators and recruited a lot of the juniors on defense. That's an informational advantage for sure.

Originally Posted by Eublet

Florida has had a string of lackluster wins all year. Their resume looked impressive on the surface, but the way they played and won games never looked good to me personally.

Agree and disagree. They were up and down all year. The Gators looked lackluster against Bowling Green, Vandy, UGA (obviously), Mizzou and LA-Lafayette. But they beat A&M on the road, comfortably beat Tennessee and KY, physically dominated LSU (the final score was 14-6, but it wasn't that close at all), crushed SCe and beat up on FSU in Tally (it was 37-20 until the last play of the game).

I don't know why the Gators weren't up for this game. They had an outside shot at the title game, but there didn't seem to be an attitude that they got a raw deal. Muschamp was very plain in saying they blew their chance in Jax.

I'm going to pin some of their seesaw season on youth. This is a young team overall. But Muschamp has to do a better job of coaxing consistent performance from them. The Gators also need a better OL, and they need to decide if Driskel can really develop a good enough internal clock to be a solid QB.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

maybe it's the shellacking of Florida

Easy now. It certainly *looked* like that for a good while, but it ultimately was not. The UF defense woke up and allowed only a FG and 120 yards of offense in the last 29 minutes. And the offense came 2 yards from making it a one-possession game with more than 2 minutes to go.

Heck, take away the first 15 seconds of each half and the Gators win.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

You can man up and admit what you meant and either 1) stand by it or 2) retract it and apologize for it, or 3) you can continue to try to weasel out of it.

Ok I admit that Soutpark made a rather funny episode as a parody of rather sad events that actually happened.

As far as the Michigan game, again, since the stats don't serve your agenda, you just ignore or dismiss them.

Let's talk then about ND's impressive 3 point margin of victory over powerhouse 6 and 7 Purdue Or that impressive Boston College victory I mentioned above!

The triple overtime (escape) victory over 6 and 6 Pitt was certainly a resume builder as was the victory (finally) over Navy...

[Eublet]

A jiggling Beyonce and the word "cute" don't belong in the same conversation!!!! I'm reporting this to the mods ASAP!!!!

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GregC

I don't know why the Gators weren't up for this game.

...

I'm going to pin some of their seesaw season on youth. This is a young team overall. But Muschamp has to do a better job of coaxing consistent performance from them.

I think you nailed it, not so much on youth in terms of underclassmen, but on youth that haven't yet been subjected to an upperclass team that knows how to think and act within a program. Muschamp is installing that but I think it takes time. Florida is mostly their I think, but that killer instinct isn't quite intact yet, very much like Bama in 2009 that was oh so close, but lost in the SECCG, and then just didn't care against Utah in the Sugar Bowl. I think if Florida could have beaten Georgia this year, then the SECCG would have been a huge "up" game for them, and if they could have won that one, then they would have been more than pumped for ND next week. But having to sit out for so long only to play Louisville probably didn't have quite the ring to it as it should when you're #3 in the polls. Many folks will dismiss that reasoning as an excuse, which it isn't, but excuses and reasons aren't always the same thing.

FWIW, the loss will probably be a watershed moment for those young players. Again like Bama, it should spur them on toward that killer instinct next year. I think Muschamp is doing everything right minus his occasional maniac rants on the side line which thus far have been easily pardonable and rather entertaining IMO.

[CElton]

We need more Beyonce!!!

FWIW, I hope both teams play to a scoreless tie.