NCAA Football 2012 - Week 13

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Eublet - well thought out reply, and your points are well taken.

Thanks. I really want to keep it civil, and not come across as kicking you while you are down.

Well, except for Auburn selling the farm to stop the run. Auburn would have had to have a farm to sell. They didn't even have a square of sod, much less a farm.

LOL! There's plenty of farm on the Loveliest Village on the Plains! You just need a new caretaker.

Seriously though, if Bama had continued to run, and Auburn had been able to stop it, would 42-0 have been so bad? Why call the audible and throw at all? Object to me calling it a bomb if you like, but it was 38 yards in the air, or darn close to it. It wasn't a screen or a short pass that broke loose. It was what it was. It wasn't "calling the dogs off" any way you look at it.

Yeah, I see your point, but all I can do is point you toward what Saban's favorite saying is, that's it's not about who you're playing, but how you're playing. It's not about them, but about you. Play to a standard and make the right decisions. AJ is the first QB in years at Alabama to have been given the freedom to make audibles at the line based on the coverage he is reading. So if you want to blame anyone for that pass (minus the defender who allowed it), I'd blame AJ. The post is a hard throw to make though, but when you're that wide open, it's also hard to miss. Saban definitely called off the dogs after that one, as it was clear Auburn's shoulders just dropped further. I know it was painful, but I don't think it was intentionally so by anyone except maybe AJ, who is a bit cocky and highly self-confident. As a coach though, Saban is going to encourage that more than he would feelings of mercy. He took the latter route with AJ early on, and it cost us big time. Since then he's figured out that the best way to deal with AJ is to let him be himself.

And my statement stands - Satan has set the bar: 49 points is where the dogs are called off, so I don't want to hear any bellyaching when the tables are turned.

I won't be bothered by it if the reverse happens. I have never had a problem with high scoring as long as it's within some of the boundaries I've mentioned. It is football and I have a hard time expecting a coach to ask kids to go in the game but not score. Even if you are calling non-stop run-up-the-middle plays, you are asking a young kid to take a brutal pounding by a defense that knows you are calling a conservative game. The risk of injury is very high for that runner, so in my mind that is even worse than just letting the kids play and possibly score. That's why I appreciate Saban putting in the scout team, and letting them run a solid offense from a play-calling perspective, albeit one that wasn't pass happy. At least that way those kids get to play in front of thousands of their fans, against their arch rival, and not be handicapped from making plays. I know not everyone will see it like I do, and that's okay.

I don't think you should be too bothered by the game myself. Nothing was expected of Auburn in this game. The painful losses to me are the ones that are close. The comeback with Cam hurt, as I'm sure our comeback the year prior did also. I don't really feel any pride from 49-0 or 36-0 win of the last few years. It's just rather disappointing because I want Auburn to at least be competitive if not win a few every once in a while (puke).

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Part of the attraction for Notre Dame to be in the National championship game is that no other team has the "negative draw" that ND has. It's a major consideration for the NBC television contract. If the nation started singing Kum ba ya with the Fighting Irish that contract would disappear in a hurry. Sure, other teams have their haters, but it's usually a regional thing. Miami might have come close in their convict days, but not anymore. It also explains why people are finding a million reasons why Notre Dame should not win. Not only the title game, but every game.

Sorry Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Oregon, K-State, and on down the line: on any given Saturday, add up all the people pulling against you and you will have a small percentage of the number of people pulling against Notre Dame. Even if Notre Dame is playing the University of Al Quida.

You're right.

They're the most hated fan base around - and with completely good reasons.

See: "Subway Alumni" and "Bandwagon Fans" for reasons...

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

I do have to ask, and your answer will probably be more logical and well thought out than what many Alabama fans would offer: If something similar to what happened to Tyrone Prothro (who was also in the process of receiving a long pass in a game that, at 31-3 and under 10 minutes left was decided without it) had happened to McCarron or Yeldon or another key Bama player (God Forbid), would having the first string in while being up by 42 still have been so defendable?

Tough question, and it always gets asked when an injury occurs. I just go back to what I said earlier, which is that injuries can occur to anyone at any time. A lot of injuries occur in practice when the teams aren't really hitting each other at all. Belichick was asked the same thing last week when Gronk was hurt on that extra point play. His response was essentially "he got hurt because he's a football player". He also stated that he's never liked pulling players because of fear of injury so that he can put in other players who can afford to be hurt. He thinks that's counter productive for team moral. I agree with him completely. You put in backups so that they gain experience, but their risk of injury is just as high, if not more so because they are underdeveloped, less talented, and playing against starters on the opposing team. Belichick also told the media to "tell him which players are going to get hurt, and he'll make sure he pulls them." I thought that was a great way to tell the media to shut their pie holes.

But in general, +1. Saban would be under a lot of heat had AJ been hurt in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure he knows that, but he played him anyway for some reason. I think there's a mental edge that successful head coaches have that causes them to do things like this, and occasionally it can backfire, especially in a game that has such a high-risk of injury anyway. That same aggressive nature that pushes them to work tirelessly and win games also causes them to leave players in the game. Bill King says it best; the top head coaches are some of the most paranoid people on the planet.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Damn, I make peace with Eublet and here comes aborgman....


EDIT - I know there are bandwagon fans - as there are for any team. Come to my home state sometime. There are rabid fans - for both major teams - that can't spell the word college.

Absolutely. See: Walmart Wolverines for the Michigan version.

There is a distinct difference in scope, number, and lack of affiliation with the school though - as well as attitude.

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

I'm not familiar with the Subway fans - why are they so hated?

Because they're bandwagon fans, who mostly support a team because they're winning - and have the most arrogant attitude imaginable regarding a school they probably couldn't even get into.

Note - this is a term that is basically ONLY used with reference to ND, and that is because their fanbase is demonstrably different.

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Are you going to hate on any fan of a college team if they didn't (or weren't fortunate enough) to attend that college?

Nah - only the bandwagon ones who are irredeemably arrogant.

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

And Bandwagon fans? Please - I've been pulling for the Irish since the 60's, including the Jerry Faust years and from 1966 till 1973 - In Alabama.

Right - so you, unlike a huge percentage of Notre Dame fans, aren't a bandwagon fan. That doesn't really say much about the topic though.

It's like the guy saying "but I won the lottery" as a response to someone complaining about how statistically stupid it is to play the lottery.

[Tractorr]

You know I don't tend to find ND fans as any worse than most and better than many.

The only problem I have with ND is that they often get insane rankings for no other reason than they are ND. I can't hate on them right now because they are undefeated and therefore deserve the rating. The problem is that because of this season they will be ranked in the top 5 preseason for the next 5 years.

I understand that many teams including my own get ranking benefits because of their brand, but ND is on a whole other level. It makes sense when a team has a good season, they win their bowl, and they return a bunch of upperclassmen that they would be ranked highly, but ND gets stuck in the top 10 when they pollsters can't think of any other team to put there.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

That's a pretty sweeping generalization for a guy who takes me to task regularly for my interpretation of statistics - that a huge percentage of ND fans are bandwagon fans.

That has been my experience in dealing with ND fans in Michigan, Oregon, and California... They, like the Yankees and Cowboys, have more fair weather fans - and I would call it a relatively huge percentage, probably approaching 25% at a guess.

But I suspect that in Michigan you live with a number of Michigan or Michigan State haters who will certainly jump on the ND bandwagon when ND has a good year against either or both of those schools.

Oh no... They're much more insufferable when you beat them...

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

You know I don't tend to find ND fans as any worse than most and better than many.

The only problem I have with ND is that they often get insane rankings for no other reason than they are ND. I can't hate on them right now because they are undefeated and therefore deserve the rating. The problem is that because of this season they will be ranked in the top 5 preseason for the next 5 years.

I understand that many teams including my own get ranking benefits because of their brand, but ND is on a whole other level. It makes sense when a team has a good season, they win their bowl, and they return a bunch of upperclassmen that they would be ranked highly, but ND gets stuck in the top 10 when they pollsters can't think of any other team to put there.

ND is the MOST overrated team(preseason vs. postseason polls) on the regular. The worst cumulatively 1989-2011.


http://preseason.stassen.com/over-under/teams.html

[basstotheface]

Seen more ND fans in the last week than in all my years.

[SoonerMatt]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

Part of the attraction for Notre Dame to be in the National championship game is that no other team has the "negative draw" that ND has.

I didn't know Texas and USC had shut their doors....

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by SoonerMatt

I didn't know Texas and USC had shut their doors....

Yeah, I have personally witnessed more USC hate than anything else in my life, with Texas being a close second. IMHO, the thing with Notre Dame feeling with most folks is just one of complete fatigue...people are just tired of hearing about them even when there is nothing newsworthy to report. I think there is a reason for this though, which is the geographically disperse fan base. In Alabama, you can get Bama news for seemingly meaningless things without having to look for it. When I lived in Florida all those years, it was a little harder to come by. This was before the internet was really useful, so you had to rely on local media. When I lived in Missouri and Oklahoma, it was even harder. But I could always hear about Notre Dame, even when they were horrible. There was always a Notre Dame fan close by. Not a lot, just one or two here and there. I think that's why people are tired of the brand.

As for the USC hate, I've noticed the same kind of thing building for Bama the last few years since we're having a run like USC had a decade ago. People just get tired of you, and start wishing you'd lose. Comes with the territory I guess.

[SoonerMatt]

Originally Posted by Eublet

As for the USC hate, I've noticed the same kind of thing building for Bama the last few years since we're having a run like USC had a decade ago. People just get tired of you, and start wishing you'd lose. Comes with the territory I guess.

Bama won't hold a candle to USC until they cheat their way to a championship, give an open pedestal to a coach as smug as Pete Carroll, (Yes, I am fully aware that up to this point Barry Switzer did the exact same thing) produce quarterbacks displaying textbook narcissism, bring out a slew of celebrity bandwagon fans, strut around like they're god's gift to college football even on a down year, and nurture an alumni and fanbase so condescending and self righteous that even Simon Cowell would tell them to turn it down, all in the same year. And do it year in and year out. Texas follows the same formula minus the cheating your way to a championship part and instead of having a smug coach in Pete Carroll they have a crybaby in Mack Brown, plus they get the bonus of the pure hatred that comes from the OU-Texas rivalry (and from my dad going to A&M)

Y'all got your work cut out for you if you want to be as hated as those 2 schools

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by SoonerMatt

Bama won't hold a candle to USC until they cheat their way to a championship, give an open pedestal to a coach as smug as Pete Carroll, (Yes, I am fully aware that up to this point Barry Switzer did the exact same thing) produce quarterbacks displaying textbook narcissism, bring out a slew of celebrity bandwagon fans, strut around like they're god's gift to college football even on a down year, and nurture an alumni and fanbase so condescending and self righteous that even Simon Cowell would tell them to turn it down, all in the same year. And do it year in and year out. Texas follows the same formula minus the cheating your way to a championship part and instead of having a smug coach in Pete Carroll they have a crybaby in Mack Brown, plus they get the bonus of the pure hatred that comes from the OU-Texas rivalry (and from my dad going to A&M)

Y'all got your work cut out for you if you want to be as hated as those 2 schools

Lol! And now they have Kiffin to add to it all. I agree with everything you just said!

[basstotheface]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

I think OK wants to be Texas more than OKST too.

Originally Posted by SoonerMatt

Texas follows the same formula minus the cheating your way to a championship part and instead of having a smug coach in Pete Carroll they have a crybaby in Mack Brown, plus they get the bonus of the pure hatred that comes from the OU-Texas rivalry (and from my dad going to A&M)

I genuinely smiled when I read that. Glad OU still hates Texas. Hate is much better than indifference.

[SoonerMatt]

Originally Posted by basstotheface

I think OK wants to be Texas more than OKST too.

I hope you're joking. I don't know anyone who wants to be Texas other than Texas.

[GregC]

Haha, you tell'em Will.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ban-let-switch

Funny, I don't recall Saban taking this stance last year when Bama went to the NC game despite not winning its division.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GregC

Haha, you tell'em Will.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ban-let-switch

Funny, I don't recall Saban taking this stance last year when Bama went to the NC game despite not winning its division.

This is one of those things that just makes me distrust the media completely on all kinds of issues, because they took something Saban said out of context, put it on the news, gave it a spin for Muschamp, and then waited to see if they could get a response back. If I weren't such an Alabama fan that follows pretty much every press conference Saban has, word for word, then I would think this was Saban whining also.

Essentially, here's what REALLY happened. Florida is a dead-lock for the Sugar Bowl regardless of what happens in the BCS championship game. This was not the case last year at all. Both teams going into the SECCG were playing for a BCS game...LSU for both the national title, and Georgia for the Sugar. If LSU won, then they'd be going to the title game. If Georgia won, then they'd have a shot at the Sugar. Either way, both teams playing for a big bowl to cap off a great season.

This year, like Saban said, is not a great scenario since Florida is already a dead-lock for the Sugar Bowl regardless of the outcome of the game. That's all he was saying. I'm sure Muschamp would love to switch spots but that's not the context of what Saban was saying at all. He just wishes that the loser of the SECCG, whoever it is, would be awarded the top spot in the automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl if the winner goes on to the NC game. Even applied to last year, that comment still makes sense.

[Eublet]

Oh, and do we really know Muschamp anyway?

[basstotheface]

Originally Posted by SoonerMatt

I hope you're joking. I don't know anyone who wants to be Texas other than Texas.

Haha my bad. It was a typo.

OK wants to beat Texas more than OKST too.

[Eublet]

This explains everything.

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by Eublet

This explains everything.

haha--this is pretty good! that should put the rankings computer into a blue screen