Need help making some vegetarian decisions

MMcC · #1 05-31-2009, 07:45 PM

I'm on the fence regarding seafood. My reasons for going veggie were 1) environmental impact of cattle industry and 2) animal welfare.

I just can't seem to care about farm raised shrimp being killed, but I haven't done any research on the eco footprint of the aquaculture industry. If anyone has had to make a similar decision and could share any ideas that influenced them that would help me.

The same applies to fish. A fish dying is far different from a cow being slaughtered or hen being debeaked, but I know the hardcore vegans don't see it as being any different. I'm already well aware of the problems of overfishing on sustainable fisheries, but are those problems relieved by farm-raising fish? Then does it come back to the eco footprint? Again, if anyone here considers themselves an expert and can help me make some of these decisions, I do need the help.

And, please, if you don't have something constructive, kindly keep out. "I'd rather die than give up meat," doesn't carry a lot of weight in this thread.

Thanks,

Matt

warwick.hoy · #2 05-31-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm not an expert, but I think that fish farms do have an environmental impact on surrounding eco-systems. I suggest doing some research (avoid any PETA sites, they are radical sensationalists).

I try to be very aware of what I eat,...and my diet does include meat. If you are concerned about the eco impact of the agriculture industry, just going vegetarian isn't going to completely effect giant agribusiness. You should to be non GMO organic at the very least and supporting local sustainability at the most to have even a slight impact.

Look into co-ops, farmers markets and non-profits. You should be able to find locally produced vegetables as well as meats and dairies that are humanely raised and put down for human consumption.

Jumbotron · #3 05-31-2009, 07:55 PM

If you're concerned about environmental impact, farmed fish have their own problems. A biggie, as far as I understand it, is that there's basically no way to keep those fish from escaping the farms and screwing up native populations. Moreover, since you need a lot of antibiotics to keep them going, they serve as breeding grounds for nice new superbugs, which is worrisome.

lowendgenerator · #4 05-31-2009, 07:56 PM

As someone who doesn't believe that what you choose to eat really makes THAT much difference in the world, I would say that you're going about this the wrong way. If you want reform for animal treatment and enviro-friendly beef, talk to your senator.

I hope you don't view this as an ignorant stab from a carnivore.

guitar ed · #5 05-31-2009, 08:00 PM

Hi Matt,

First off, I am a meat eater. Just so you know.

I don't know about the carbon foot print of farmed fish, but there are issues with they are raised. For instance, anti-biotics, just like in cattle & pork & fowl. There are also waste isssues which need to be dealt with. This applies equally to fish & shrimp.

Also, I don't understand your differentiating between cattle & fish when it comes to the slaughtering portion of things. Both are sentient beings, IMHO, being killed for food. Both should feel pain, etc.

Sorry I can't help you any on the core of your question about the carbon foot print.

edg

popinfresh · #6 05-31-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowendgenerator

As someone who doesn't believe that what you choose to eat really makes THAT much difference in the world, I would say that you're going about this the wrong way. If you want reform for animal treatment and enviro-friendly beef, talk to your senator.

I hope you don't view this as an ignorant stab from a carnivore.

In all honesty if everyone was vegan or vego there would be a significant difference, but the fact that the vegan population is so small, it would hardly make a pin sized dent at the moment.

To the OP. According to studies (don't have reference now but have seen it), fish feel pain and have feeling much like other animals. So if you don't think they're in pain writhing around on the ground when caught with a hook through their mouth, or just don't care, might as well eat beef IMO.

But if that's your stand, i'd probably be trying to get all seafood from local fisherman if it's available. No idea on the footprint concerning packaging and transport though, I suppose the further away from the source the further the impact is all.

Jumbotron · #7 05-31-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowendgenerator

As someone who doesn't believe that what you choose to eat really makes THAT much difference in the world, I would say that you're going about this the wrong way. If you want reform for animal treatment and enviro-friendly beef, talk to your senator.

I hope you don't view this as an ignorant stab from a carnivore.

Of course, there is a consistency pressure here. If one was passionate about carbon emissions, by all means, a wise thing to do would be to contact one's representation and try to effect legislative change. But one should probably also avoid driving a large, inefficient car. Similarly with eating meat.

MMcC · #8 05-31-2009, 08:07 PM

I'm appreciating all comments and taking them into consideration. I'm not trying to change the world, just make myself feel better about the way I live in it.

warwick.hoy · #9 05-31-2009, 08:10 PM

And at the same time pressure from the agribusiness lobby is stronger and has more clout than any grassroots vegan or local sustainability movement has.

The problem with how we are fed is due to the fact that someone somewhere is making a profit...not becuase we as humans need sustenance. Take the profit out of it and we may get somewhere.

warwick.hoy · #10 05-31-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMcC

I'm appreciating all comments and taking them into consideration. I'm not trying to change the world, just make myself feel better about the way I live in it.

Do your research...look around your community. There should be groups (look out for the militant ones). I think you can feel better about how you live if; instead of cutting meat out of your diet, look for locally sustainable options instead of supporting Monsanto, ADM, and the ilk.

seanm · #11 05-31-2009, 10:32 PM

Our solution was to buy a freezer and get half an organic cow each year. My wife goes to an organic farmers market every Saturday and met the farmer there. We feel we can trust him to be humane and treat the cows well.

I realize not everybody has room for a freezer, and buying half a cow is a large cash outlay, but it saves money in the long run.

FreaqyFrequency · #12 05-31-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

In all honesty if everyone was vegan or vego there would be a significant difference, but the fact that the vegan population is so small, it would hardly make a pin sized dent at the moment.

This is exactly the reason I went myself. It was the pebble that started the avalanche.

southernrocker · #13 05-31-2009, 10:46 PM

I'm am also a meat eater, but I won't go much more into that.
I think that not eating meat can't be good on your health, but I'm sure you vegans have a different way to get your protein. Make sure you are not killing your health.

FreaqyFrequency · #14 05-31-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernrocker

Make sure you are not killing your health.

I spent an entire year before I made the transition researching the appropriate aminos and nutrients I could get from other foods. I do not recommend it to anyone for this reason; you need to be ready to be a healthier person after you do it, and you cannot be healthy for long without those essential vitamins and minerals.

RS · #15 06-01-2009, 07:24 AM

Good for you MMcC. I think the main arguments have been covered (animal sentience, water pollution, antiboitic usage, etc.).

I can't find the source right now, but I've read the statistics that if everyone in the US skipped meat once a week, it would make a tremendous difference (in environmental impact and adversely affecting animal agriculture industry). The beef/chicken/pork industry get huge government subsidies and considerations to keep the price of meat artificially low. So to shift the supply/demand ratio even a couple percent could make a huge impact.