Need help with sax

Warwickthumb · #1 12-24-2007, 09:41 PM

This questions is way off topic from bass. I've recently picked up the sax again. Though of course I really never played. I took lessons when I was in 6th grade. And it went about as far as that. Something has rekindled my intrest in sax. Most likely all the jazz ive been playing.listening too. Anyways. So i got in with this group. Play chicago, tower of power etc... covers. Anything with a big brass/woodwind section. I came in as a trombone player(already have a bass player). I did mention I had an alto sax. So I brought that. And after years and years of not playing I was back to playing stuff way more advanced then i was of course doing in 6th grade. And I wasnt doing to bad. I remembered the fingerings somehow, and the leader just told me what to play. I was so happy that day. So here I am tonight. I pull my sax out. Got some music to work with. And I cant play anything. Last night I played with the group for a good 4 hours. And practiced more after that. My lip doesnt hurt at all. But my notes keep going up and down in octaves, and im not even hitting the octave key. And I cant play anything below the the low e. My fear is that my lip is just completly shot. BUt i noticed if i hold the keys down really hard. I can keep the notes under control. So is it my pads or my lip, or combo of both. I know theres a few sax players out there. And i reallycouldnt find a good sax message board like talkbass. Thanks for any help.

Sonic_Death · #2 12-24-2007, 09:42 PM

I don't have any advice to offer you, but I thought it was noteworthy to mention that I totally read the thread title wrong and was greatly confused by your post

haha

iamlowsound · #3 12-24-2007, 10:04 PM

No help from me, but I also though that the title said sex.

lowsound

Bard2dbone · #4 12-24-2007, 10:05 PM

If holding the keys down harder makes it work, then you at least have a pad issue. But that doesn't mean your lip isn't kind of worn out, right now.

Just like taking up a bass for the first time in a long time, you would want to get it set up, you should get a competent tech to look at your sax and see what issues it has.

edit: Coincidentally I too, was considering taking back up an instrument I haven't played since I was in school. But in my case I was looking at valve trombones and flugelhorns on ebay.

Pete C · #5 12-24-2007, 10:16 PM

It sounds like an endurance and pad thing. Take it to a horn doctor (that's what we call them where I'm at) for a checkup. As far as lips, I play saxophone in a passive way but whenever I don't practice for a while and then practice for a long time, my lips get worn out fast and my octaves get screwed up too.

will.i.am · #6 12-24-2007, 10:45 PM

I asked my teacher why it's so hard to play my low notes (i play tenor, so like C and B) and he told me to play from the stomach... whatever that means. It's all about posture too, no sloppyness! Sit straight, make sure the ligature is at the right spot, mine goes to the edge before it slants down. Well i've been playing tenor for 5 years and i still have difficulties playing C and B =P Although, i only used them this year, that might be why. I also get problems with the G above, i'm pretty sure that's all my fault. Just keep practicing and get it checked out! good luck!

markjazzbassist · #7 12-24-2007, 10:58 PM

yeah man, you gotta work on your ambrosure. i'm a sax player too and if you haven't played in a while, the reason you're moving up and down octaves is cause your mouth, lips, and bite (on top of mouthpiece) isn't tight enough.

Practice for mouth on the mouthpiece and really try to tighten that up and not let any air in. that will help you to hold notes.

ALSO** switch to a lower Reed #. Try a 2 or 2 - 1/2. You might be using a harder reed which are harder to play through. Also make sure you are lining up the Reed correctly on the mouthpiece.

If none of these work (practicing more, improving ambrosure, and lower and new reeds) THEN get the pads checked out. Honestly i don't think it's a pad issue. I have a beat to SH&t sax from 6th grade i play and it's pads suck, yet it still work and sounds fine.

cheers. PM me if you have more questions on anything.

jonathan_matos5 · #8 12-24-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will.i.am

I asked my teacher why it's so hard to play my low notes (i play tenor, so like C and B) and he told me to play from the stomach... whatever that means. It's all about posture too, no sloppyness! Sit straight, make sure the ligature is at the right spot, mine goes to the edge before it slants down. Well i've been playing tenor for 5 years and i still have difficulties playing C and B =P Although, i only used them this year, that might be why. I also get problems with the G above, i'm pretty sure that's all my fault. Just keep practicing and get it checked out! good luck!

i too play trombone. from a wannabe instructors point of view i imagine what he is saying by play it from the stomach is to support the note with your diaphragm keep your airflow steady and your embrochure steady too. in a wind instrument more air can solve a lot of your tone issues. posture is key to get the best sound if you slouch then you will play as bad as you look slumped over in a chair.

if more air doesn't help your octave jumping and goose sqaucks just get louder then it still may not be the horn

if the horn has been sitting for a bit it may need a repad but im no sax player. so i say have it looked at.

santucci218 · #9 12-24-2007, 11:07 PM

oof, hopefully its only a few pads man, to replace all the pads gets in the $200+ range.

Warwickthumb · #10 12-25-2007, 12:33 AM

And this is why I love this site so much. Great responses guys. And its not even a bass related question. I know my embacure would have something to do with it. Though the two practices ive done ok. Obvioulsy tone wasnt to good. And all that other stuff that goes along with no practice for years. Though hes had me play in the higher register. Short of the alltismo. And the songs I was working on were in the lower register. Now i just squeak and squawk. Kind of disapointing. As far as pads go. This could be the case as well. But i had the leader play my alto. And hes been playing for his lifetime(hes 65 now) And he couldnt play it very well. I hope its not pads. I know how much a repad costs. Its def not cheap. If it helps the sax is a leblanc Vito. And judging by the serial number its from the 70s. So those could be original pads. On a side note. On bass ive memorized everything as patterns. I know all sorts of ways to play the major scale, melodic minor, harmonic minor dorian, locrian bebop finding the relative minor or major etc etc. BUt with a instrument like sax or even trombone. I have to know those notes of the scale. No patterns for me to cheat with. Really makes me look at things in a diffrent way. Kinda cool. And ill add this. In 6th grade when I picked up the sax. We did this show and tell thing with music in music class. And i wanted to show off this new instrument. So when I asked the teacher if I could show my sax. Well thats what I said in my head. But what came out was could I show my sex. Needless to say, it took a while for kids ti forget i said that.

Warwickthumb · #11 12-25-2007, 12:40 AM

Oh and forgot to add. Markjazzbassist. Im using a number 2 reed right now. Ive never even gone past that number. And when ive been practicing at home and with the group. Ive been standing. I play when stand so I figure i should stand when I practice. I apply this to bass as well. Trombone playing is great. I did a special for church sunday. I wasnt fully warmed up so i died in the first part of the song. After that it went smooth. I just really miss playing those horns. Once HS was over i had no reason to play them. Bass was getting me gigs.

santucci218 · #12 12-25-2007, 12:50 AM

to relate your pad problem to bass...In the Jaco biography they talk of how he was too poor to have a good sax so he used a band aid to replace one of the pads! and he didnt have a sax strap, he used a bent coat hanger.

Bard2dbone · #13 12-25-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warwickthumb

And this is why I love this site so much. Great responses guys. And its not even a bass related question. I know my embacure would have something to do with it. Though the two practices ive done ok. Obvioulsy tone wasnt to good. And all that other stuff that goes along with no practice for years. Though hes had me play in the higher register. Short of the alltismo. And the songs I was working on were in the lower register. Now i just squeak and squawk. Kind of disapointing. As far as pads go. This could be the case as well. But i had the leader play my alto. And hes been playing for his lifetime(hes 65 now) And he couldnt play it very well. I hope its not pads. I know how much a repad costs. Its def not cheap. If it helps the sax is a leblanc Vito. And judging by the serial number its from the 70s. So those could be original pads. On a side note. On bass ive memorized everything as patterns. I know all sorts of ways to play the major scale, melodic minor, harmonic minor dorian, locrian bebop finding the relative minor or major etc etc. BUt with a instrument like sax or even trombone. I have to know those notes of the scale. No patterns for me to cheat with. Really makes me look at things in a diffrent way. Kinda cool. And ill add this. In 6th grade when I picked up the sax. We did this show and tell thing with music in music class. And i wanted to show off this new instrument. So when I asked the teacher if I could show my sax. Well thats what I said in my head. But what came out was could I show my sex. Needless to say, it took a while for kids ti forget i said that.

I know you hope it's not pads. But it looks pretty ominous there, doesn't it? I think it's going to need new pads. And I know they'll sometimes offer to do just the most worn ones. Don't do it. Get it over with and get them all done. It's the only way to do it right.

doctorjazz · #14 12-25-2007, 10:07 AM

I'm a sax performance major, hopefully I can help.

I had trouble with low notes for years, it's something I've really only got resolved since I started studying in college. The trick is to get used to playing it with your throat, not dropping your jaw. Sing the note, then keep your throat in the same position and use plenty of air and it should be easier to play.

You might try taking in a bit more mouthpiece too. I know I can't say for sure because I can't see you play, but that's a pretty common thing that needs fixing among inexperienced players.

Of course, that is all provided that your horn is in decent playing condition. If it isn't, it'll make everything much harder.

Ericman197 · #15 12-25-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic_Death

I don't have any advice to offer you, but I thought it was noteworthy to mention that I totally read the thread title wrong and was greatly confused by your post

haha

this

I also played sax at one point and gave up. I guess it's not THAT hard, but I never got much further than playing Hot Cross Buns... for years. That was my song.

AmazingGracePlayer · #16 12-25-2007, 05:02 PM

Maybe it's because Tower of Power doesn't have a dominant sax part? I'm a huge fan of the band, and their sax/trumpets only do the fill-ins, they don't do much leading.

Try tightening the sides of your mouth / cheek for high/med ranged notes; and moving your lower jaw forward for lower notes. That's the only thing I can think of, never had a problem like that when I played sax.

Best of luck!

tplyons · #17 12-25-2007, 09:12 PM

Relax your jaw, that's why you're jumping octaves. It's a bad habit to get into, so bad that I eventually stopped using my octave key. It came in handy sometimes, but caused me more harm than good.

I miss sax too, by the way.

seanm · #18 12-25-2007, 10:13 PM

Isn't the Vito a student instrument? If so, you will want to move up to an intermediate or pro instrument if you are going to play in a band. I wouldn't put a lot of money into a student instrument.

And leaky pads, unless the seal is completely gone, just make it *harder* to play, but you can still play. The octave problem sounds like the embouchure.

I kept an old Selmer alto sax for practice *because* it was hard to play. Made playing any other sax seem like cake.

I also miss playing the sax and started to take it back up again a while back. But I stopped. My problem is that you cannot practice a sax quietly

Yngwie 4String · #19 12-25-2007, 10:37 PM

Use protection.

Go slow.

Compliment the lady often.

You should be OK.

Warwickthumb · #20 12-26-2007, 12:28 PM

Well i brought the horn over to my dasd house so he could take a look at it. Sure enough theres a small key attached to the octave key. And the pad was coming out causing the key to stick open and well making the sax unplayable. He fixed and its about as good as new. He told me who to take it to to have it proffesionaly checkedout. Side not he playes tenor. That is a cool saxaphone. Never played one before. It seems to have so much power to it. He uses one of those aluminum jazz mouth pieces, which is kinda hard for me to play right now. But i still played it. Very unique sound. Said it cost him alot of money. I can belive it. Ok back to the discussion. Seanm you are right it is a student model. My dad told me not to expect alot out of it. Down the road if I take it seriously then, upgrade. But whats the diffrence? How does an intermediat or proffesional play better then a student? Heck, when i dont feel like hauling my gear to the open jam. I use thier in house bass which is a piece of junk. But i can play it just fine.