Need a little legal advice... who's a lawyer?

[rojo412]

So I just got a letter in the mail today from a woman to whom I sold a car...

Two months ago, I posted my 1990 Lexus on Craigslist. It was a 21 year old car, driven in Cleveland year round, and had its share of problems, all of which were listed plain-as-day on the listing. I asked $1800.

Shortly after listing it, this woman came by, drove it, and thought about it for a couple days.
A few days later, she came back and bought it. All was just fine.

Today, I get a letter in the mail from this lady. She essentially said that the car has given her problems and she believes I scammed her. She plans to go to court and do something about it.

My question is, should I be worried?

I made sure to let her know of every issue I noticed with the car at the time of sale. I posted pictures and didn't make any effort to hide anything. I essentially even went out of my way to say "there's rust, there's age, wear and tear, it's an old car, but has been fine for me for 9 months (the entire time I owned it)."

I made no attempt to hide anything, so it kind of came down to the fact that if she had concerns, it may have been in her best interest to get the car inspected before buying it. I wouldn't have had any problem if she wanted to take it to a mechanic before buying it. Hell, if she bought it and it had problems the next day, I'd have made any effort I could to make her happy...

This is 2 months, though. A lot can happen to ANYTHING in 2 months, especially a rusty 21 year old car. Where does my involvement in the new owner's life with the car END? I assumed that Ohio was a state where any transaction such as this was a "Buyer beware" situation and that without any sort of warranty implied, the seller is not responsible.
Whether there was a problem in 5 months or 5 minutes, doesn't matter... you decided to buy it, you took ownership, you used it, end of story.

But I can't find any sort of black-and-white law stating that. Little help?

[RonGillman3]

I'm not a lawyer but I would say don't worry. If you told her the problems of the car beforehand you should be fine. Besides it was a 21 year old rustbucket, and she could be the cause of the issues. With Craigslist, it normally is buy and if it breaks, its yours. Now if you lied and said that it was in amazing condition then she might could get something for that but it doesn't sound like you said that.

[hbarcat]

You don't owe her anything. When a private party sells a used car to another private party it's assumed that the car is sold "as-is" with no warranty unless specifically written otherwise.

An exception to this may occur when the vehicle was sold with a serious hidden problem that greatly reduces the value of the car below the selling price. Assuming the buyer sues in small claims court the buyer must demonstrate to the judge that the problem was 1) present at the time of the sale, 2) hidden or not easily found with reasonable inspection and 3) serious enough to greatly reduce the value of the vehicle below it's selling price

My guess is she knows she doesn't have a legal right to anything but is writing to see if you'll pay her anyway, either because you feel guilty or feel sorry for her, or you'll be scared of being sued.

I'd just ignore the letter. But if you want to answer, just politely remind her of what you said in your OP. That you honestly disclosed everything you knew about the car's condition and that it was sold "as is" and you're not legally responsible for any problems that occur after the sale.

[Simo98]

Yep, sounds like she is just trying to get some money out of you.

If you have any record of how you described the car, save it and print it out. Any emails back and forth and anything that could support your case. This is assuming she does decide to take it to court.

But to be perfectly honest, claiming "I paid a fair price for a 21 year old rust bucket, and it broke down after two months!" doesn't sound like a particularly strong case. As long as that is a reasonable price in your area im pretty sure that just about anyone who hears the story will understand your position.

[MJ5150]

You may not legally "owe" her anything, but she is about to make your life miserable.

-Mike

[DblG]

What, does she think you're a dealership? sheesh...it was 21 years old, what would she expect?? I agree with the "as-is" statement above. I usually write that on my receipt. Sounds like you were honest on your part telling her all the things wrong with it (that you were aware of). I'm interested to hear some of the TB lawyers chime in...

[stevetx19]

you got quite a bit for a 21 year old car. nice

[Staccato]

Buyer says "ouch." Seller says "oh that's too bad." I once was in the process of selling a car, and the buyer requested that I drive 35 miles to his bank out of town. Then, the banker gave it a close inspection. 3 days later, the transmission had major problems. The buyer tried to get me to reveal something over the phone, and I told him I knew of no existing problem, nor was I aware of any previous problem(s). It was a clean used car, and I was not aware of any problems.

That was it...

[nutdog]

Yeah that's going to be a problem. It's gonna be a problem for them. This a clear violation of your rights as a consumer. It's an infringement on your constitutional rights. It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous.

[C.Linton]

Don't worry, be Happy. As was said, private sales are "as is" unless you made specific guarantees (in writing) that turn out not to be true, i.e. the transmission is perfect and it turns out (and she can prove it) that it was malfunctioning at the time you sold it to her and knew about it. And the fact that she had it for two months before contacting you to complain about any problems also works against her. Don't let her scare you into settling , let her take you to court. If you did as you say, that you disclosed up front all that you knew was wrong, she doesn't have a leg to stand on. One thing that helps, is if you still have or can get a hold of the ad, and any e-mails you and her exchanged that will support your side of the issue.

Just goes to show People's Court can be very helpful and educational. And Sexy.

Woof!

[Pilgrim]

Of course, you created a bill of sale which specifically stated that the car was AS-IS, with no guarantees........and BOTH of you signed and dated it........end each of you kept a copy........RIGHT?

Hint: there is only one correct answer. If your answer is yes, you should have nothing to worry about. State laws can differ on fine points, but you should be OK.

Incidentally, when you sign the title, you also include the date with your signature, even if the buyer doesn't want you to. You are protecting yourself by making it clear when the vehicle left your hands. It's not your role to give the buyer extra time to transfer the title. You want them to do it immediately.

[muzikman7]

There is now way she is going to get a lawyer, the cost would exceed the cost of the car and I don't think any lawyer would bother with something like this and if all else buyers beware.

[rojo412]

Love the Jackie Chiles reference. ("Who told you to put the balm on?!?!")

I can print the craigslist ad out and it can be easily looked up on CL to see that it wasn't tampered with. Ace in the hole, if it comes down to it. There was no email, we only talked on the phone, so there's no email proof of anything.
She brought a boyfriend along to help her with the test ride and sort of inspect it, but he knew less than I did about cars.

Funny thing about that receipt though...

From what my one friend was telling me, the only time you can really get screwed is if you offer up ANY verbiage that implies "WARRANTY". I did not. I'm not a freaking used car dealership... I'm a guy with an extra car who needs more bass gear! So that seems to help a bit too.

[Waterpilot]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

at the time you sold it to her and knew about it.

I'm not a lawyer but this really is the key. If she can prove you knew about something prior to sale and didn't disclose it she'd have a case. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Originally Posted by muzikman7

There is now way she is going to get a lawyer, the cost would exceed the cost of the car and I don't think any lawyer would bother with something like this and if all else buyers beware.

It's a small claims deal where she'd represent herself. She can take him in and he'd have to defend it. No attorneys.

[Sonic_Death]

I am merely a law student, but based off of things I have learned so far, the advice/knowledge in this thread sounds pretty accurate.

She may try to come after you or milk some money from you, but I would stay strong and just tell her that it was an "as-is" sale and to your knowledge, there were no issues with the car when you sold it to her.

With a car of that age and use, she'd be crazy to expect it not to have some problems down the road.

Also, from what I know, it's typically the case that the buyer has every right and opportunity to inspect a car and take it to a mechanic before purchasing it, and by not doing this, or doing it half-assed, they are essentially waiving their right for any recovery (pending there was no express warranty on your part).

There are the occasional exceptions and differences which vary by State, but I think given the facts that you'd be pretty safe. If I was you, I would reply to her and be honest about your position. I am interested in what kind of "problems" she is having with the car now.. for $1800, maybe it's in her best interest to invest a little more money into the car anyway to get some life out of it.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by rojo412

I can print the craigslist ad out and it can be easily looked up on CL to see that it wasn't tampered with. Ace in the hole, if it comes down to it.

Funny thing about that receipt though...

From what my one friend was telling me, the only time you can really get screwed is if you offer up ANY verbiage that implies "WARRANTY". I did not. I'm not a freaking used car dealership... I'm a guy with an extra car who needs more bass gear! So that seems to help a bit too.

Heed this in the future for your benefit: ALWAYS - ALWAYS - write up a bill of sale. Get a sample from the Internet - they're all over, and you can easily modify them to suit the need. http://billofsaleforms.info/search/

It doesn't matter that you're not a car dealership, you still have to operate in a businesslike manner and protect yourself. this is especially important when selling something of substantial value or that could injure another person. Cars and firearms both fall into those categories.

Verbiage doesn't count - what's in writing counts. Get everything important in writing, get both signatures, and keep a copy for yourself.

[JohnMCA72]

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...9s-Consum.aspx

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Heed this in the future for your benefit: ALWAYS - ALWAYS - write up a bill of sale. Get a sample from the Internet - they're all over, and you can easily modify them to suit the need. http://billofsaleforms.info/search/

It doesn't matter that you're not a car dealership, you still have to operate in a businesslike manner and protect yourself. this is especially important when selling something of substantial value or that could injure another person. Cars and firearms both fall into those categories.

Verbiage doesn't count - what's in writing counts. Get everything important in writing, get both signatures, and keep a copy for yourself.

Always best to get it in writing, but unlike what you said earlier, I'm fairly certain it doesn't need to be put in writing that the sale is "as-is", that is assumed in a private sale unless some sort of warranty is otherwise stated in writing.

[Simo98]

No reciept? Paid in cash?

Report it stolen

[Phalex]

Caveat Emptor