Need philosophy help!

[Fassa Albrecht]

I'm really stuck understanding something about philosophy. I know there are a load of philosophy people on here so...

I've been reading Ayn Rand's books recently (Anthem and The Fountainhead) and I'm really stuck as to what the primary doctrines of Objectivism actually are.

Can anyone explain them simply to me?

[Deluge Of Sound]

Check out some rush lyrics

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Check out some rush lyrics

How did you know I was listening to 2112?

[12bass]

Google is your friend....

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by 12bass

Google is your friend....

I've got Encyclopaedia Britannica right here....it's just not making ANY sense.

[MAJOR METAL]

Re Metaphysics ?

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

How did you know I was listening to 2112?

I'm just that good.


But Neil Pert is one of the more famous Randian Objectivists.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by MAJOR METAL

Re Metaphysics ?

I'm just confused on the core beliefs.

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

I'm just that good.

But Neil Peart is one of the more famous Randian Objectivists.

I know...

[12bass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

Objectivism holds that reality exists independent from consciousness; that individual persons are in contact with this reality through sensory perception; that human beings can gain objective knowledge from perception through the process of concept formation; that the proper moral purpose of one's life is the pursuit of one's own happiness or "rational self-interest"; that the only social system consistent with this morality is full respect for individual rights, embodied in pure, consensual laissez-faire capitalism; and that the role of art in human life is to transform man's widest metaphysical ideas, by selective reproduction of reality, into a physical form—a work of art—that one can comprehend and respond to.

[Jumbotron]

To each his own, of course, but my take would be not to bother with Rand. It's not worth the trouble.

[SpectorBass308]

Okay, this is what I understand of it;

There exists a reality that is absolute, it doesn't matter how you feel or what you think about it. "Reason is Man's only way of perceiving reality". Man's self is his greatest interest, therefore you should peruse your own goals and happiness, you should not dedicate yourself to helping others achieve their own happiness/goals and ignore your own. "It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit".

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by 12bass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

I don't understand the first part about 'concept formation'...

[MAJOR METAL]

The fundamental nature of reality is reduced to the primacy of reality in which consistency of exsistance and being remain equal. Reality remains a constent outside the perception of being and mind.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by SpectorBass308

Okay, this is what I understand of it;

There exists a reality that is absolute, it doesn't matter how you feel or what you think about it. "Reason is Man's only way of perceiving reality". Man's self is his greatest interest, therefore you should peruse your own goals and happiness, you should not dedicate yourself to helping others achieve their own happiness/goals and ignore your own. "It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit".

I think I get it now...

[SpectorBass308]

Originally Posted by MAJOR METAL

The fundamental nature of reality is reduced to the primacy of reality in which consistency of exsistance and being remain equal. Reality remains a constent outside the perception of being and mind.

You might need to break that down for her into simpler language.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by SpectorBass308

You might need to break that down for her into simpler language.

I think I undertand actually.

[12bass]

In other words, reality is mind independent - it exists objectively, regardless of your perception or lack of perception.

FWIW, that's about as far as I can agree with Rand, especially with regard to the political/economic stuff. I don't think we can attain objective knowledge at all. Rather, my view is that all knowledge comes from a perspective, especially for beings with limited perceptual abilities and vested interests.

[SpectorBass308]

It might help to notice the difference between the words Objective and Subjective;

Objective; not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased.

Subjective; existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought, as opposed to Objective.

Hope this helps

[Fassa Albrecht]

I agree with Rand on a lot of things such as racism but I can't accept that knowledge involves a rejection of faith and mysticism,

[12bass]

Hard to go any further on that topic....