New BCS Report on crime in the UK released

[Mark Latimour]

Well, a reason for England and Wales residents to feel more secure. A new BCS report was released today with significant drops in recorded crime in most areas. In particular, violent crime has droppped 41% since 1995 and victimisation rates are at their lowest ever. Firearm relates incidents remain stable at less than 1% of recorded violent incidents since 1995.

Here's a link to a summary of the main statitics:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdf...sb0708summ.pdf

The full report is here (over 200 pages):

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708.pdf

Its pretty interesting reading if you have the time.

Apparently things are not so rosy for the Scottish though!

[Rusty Chainsaw]

That's encouraging... although something seriously needs to be done about the whole knife crime thing.

Last time I was back in the UK and went out in my home town, the place had become a fair bit scarier than it used to be. I used to be more than happy to walk around the place after dark, but it's changed... lots of reports of stabbings there lately. And I have no desire to get "shanked" or "slotted", thank you.

At whatever point I move back to the UK, Croydon will most certainly not be on my shortlist of places to live!

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Rusty Chainsaw

That's encouraging... although something seriously needs to be done about the whole knife crime thing.

Last time I was back in the UK and went out in my home town, the place had become a fair bit scarier than it used to be. I used to be more than happy to walk around the place after dark, but it's changed... lots of reports of stabbings there lately. And I have no desire to get "shanked" or "slotted", thank you.

At whatever point I move back to the UK, Croydon will most certainly not be on my shortlist of places to live!

Even so, the chance of being a victim of knife crime is very much dependent on your race and socio-economic group. I live in an area with a higher than usual risk of knife crime, but am still not concerned at all because statistically I fall well outside of the "risk zone".

[Toasted]

Plus we've only had 20 people die from being stabbed in the UK since Jan 1st. It's not exactly a problem... compared to other ones i can think of

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Toasted

Plus we've only had 20 people die from being stabbed in the UK since Jan 1st. It's not exactly a problem... compared to other ones i can think of

Football hooliganism?

[Toasted]

I think that's not a problem in the UK anymore, since we sent all the criminals to some other country. Where was that now?

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by Toasted

I think that's not a problem in the UK anymore, since we sent all the criminals to some other country. Where was that now?

I wish we could send ours there!!

[Toasted]

I heard a stat on Richard *sniff sniff* Bacon's show last night on 5Live that said an opinion poll said that it was the general perception that crime in the intreviewee's local area was down 2/3rds, but that crime was up 2/3rds nationally.

[burk48237]

A few things come to mind:

Mark your revelation that crime effects certain neighborhoods and socioeconomic groups is true in the US too. Even in high crime areas, your much more likely to be shot by a family member or friend. So it pays to know who they are. Obviously the crowd you run with has a lot to do with your chances of becoming a victim.

Not everyone trusts British crime statistics. It appears the British are much more stringent in their definition of weapon usage. In the US possession of a gun constitutes a "gun crime". In the UK apparently the Gun has to be used, a HUGE difference in reporting standards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7462619.stm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3751398.shtml

Knife crime is on the rise, can't trust the Brit commoners with sharp instruments, time for "knife control".

http://canpalmersk.blogspot.com/2008...ife-crime.html

And Mark, your chance of becoming a victim are much higher then you think. You are male, after-all. A member of a huge victim group. Lots of male discrimination going on in London, evidently.

http://therightsofman.typepad.co.uk/...ime-stati.html

[TheDarkReaver]

public perception is always different because the public as a mass body are paranoid. Possesion of a gun, at least a handgun, is a crime in the UK, one that carries a minimum 5 year sentence.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Not everyone trusts British crime statistics. It appears the British are much more stringent in their definition of weapon usage. In the US possession of a gun constitutes a "gun crime". In the UK apparently the Gun has to be used, a HUGE difference in reporting standards.

Do you have a source that a gun has to be used for it to count as gun crime. That isn't stated in any of the articles you quoted and makes no sense as over half of recorded gun crime in the UK invovles a firearm that is not discharged.

Knife crime is on the rise, can't trust the Brit commoners with sharp instruments, time for "knife control".

http://canpalmersk.blogspot.com/2008...ife-crime.html

Actually knife crime isn't on the rise. See the report linked above. Its been stable the last 10 years. Public perception is that its on the rise because of all the media attention, but actual incidents have been relatively stable. The article you have linked above is only looking at a yaer on year comparison. Knife crime rose 2% this year, but dropped 13% the year before IIRC. That means that the net two year position is its down something like 11.5%.

[Rusty Chainsaw]

To follow on from what Mark said, most so-called "gun crime" in Britain is people being threatened with guns, not getting shot. And the vast majority of these guns are non-functioning replicas, not real guns. It is, contrary to common belief, actually very hard to get a real, working handgun in the UK since the ban (and just as difficult to get the ammo). But, even if you threaten someone with a replica, it usually has the desired effect.

There are some idiots out there who have been converting replicas to fire live rounds - I'm sure there's no need to tell you that this is extremely dangerous, and it's highly likely the gun will blow up in your hand. Also, quite a few of the actual shootings that happen are carried out with home-made "zip guns" rather than the real thing.

[FL Knifemaker]

Knife laws always make me laugh. Why make one type of knife, say a bali or automatic illegal and other knives, the same size not?? Why should it matter how they open, lock or how fast the blade can be deployed. A "wave" style opener works as the knife comes out of the pocket but they are legal A small, LEGAL fixed blade knife doesn't need to be opened 90% of knife crimes involve a damn kitchen knife I understand the bali's and autos are PERCIEVED to be EVIL but really..........to base laws on that??

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Do you have a source that a gun has to be used for it to count as gun crime. That isn't stated in any of the articles you quoted and makes no sense as over half of recorded gun crime in the UK invovles a firearm that is not discharged.



Actually knife crime isn't on the rise. See the report linked above. Its been stable the last 10 years. Public perception is that its on the rise because of all the media attention, but actual incidents have been relatively stable. The article you have linked above is only looking at a yaer on year comparison. Knife crime rose 2% this year, but dropped 13% the year before IIRC. That means that the net two year position is its down something like 11.5%.

I'm glad you started this thread. I've been noticing the headlines about knife crime, and I felt that it was being blown up by media hysteria. Although I am about as far away from a conservative as one can get, I strongly agree with conservatives when it comes to demonizing an inanimate object. Knives are very handy tools, IMO, and UK law which allows pocket knives of 3" or less as long as they aren't "flick" knives (although I love my manual one handers) seems reasonable. I think the current mania furthers a mindset where all knives are seen as weapons only while doing absolutely nothing to correct the social problems that have created a spike in violent crime in, especially in Black British communities.

Put it another way, get rid of all the knives, and what's to stop a wave of sharp pencil, screwdriver homicides unless the underlying issues are addressed?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

Knife laws always make me laugh. Why make one type of knife, say a bali or automatic illegal and other knives, the same size not?? Why should it matter how they open, lock or how fast the blade can be deployed. A "wave" style opener works as the knife comes out of the pocket but they are legal A small, LEGAL fixed blade knife doesn't need to be opened 90% of knife crimes involve a damn kitchen knife I understand the bali's and autos are PERCIEVED to be EVIL but really..........to base laws on that??

That is so true. The butcher knife or steak in the kitchen is the one most likely to used be used in a murder. Heck even most maniacs in movies get nice wide bladed, flat ground chef's knife!

[thumpbass1]

I live in good old Omaha Nebraska and the most recent crime report released this month
proclaims that most overall crime is down but violent crimes such as assault and homicide
are up by 25 percent! I guess I'm lucky that I only got some car windows shot out this year by the local pellet gun vandals and their stupid sprees of juvenile chaos, when three
people got shot in three seperate incidents within a half hour the other night in one of the combat zones in my otherwise fair hometown. Fortunately no one was killed!

I don't get how people can get so stupid and morally depraved sometimes. It's time for decent people to rise up and say no more to the thugs and hoodlums who make life a literal hell of misery and despair for those they victimize. We suffer way too much crime in the U.S. as well.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Do you have a source that a gun has to be used for it to count as gun crime. That isn't stated in any of the articles you quoted and makes no sense as over half of recorded gun crime in the UK invovles a firearm that is not discharge

Mark, It is my understanding, that the firearm has to be fired or used in a "threatening manner" or what the US would call brandished. In the US possession even in the car or home of a felon gets classified as a gun crime. Not a real big difference obviously the US has more gun crime then the UK, because violence is more common here period, and we have more guns. But the Knife murder rate is significantly higher here too. Those damn Cutco's.

Crime has been falling in the US since the mid 70's when it was REALLY bad here. It has leveled off for the last couple of years, but part of the reason for that is increased population in the 15-25 age group. OTOH, prison population has skyrocketed. While I know the US has a very high incarceration rate, I would love to know if the UK's has increased as crime has fallen?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/crime.html

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Mark, It is my understanding, that the firearm has to be fired or used in a "threatening manner" or what the US would call brandished. In the US possession even in the car or home of a felon gets classified as a gun crime. Not a real big difference obviously the US has more gun crime then the UK, because violence is more common here period, and we have more guns. But the Knife murder rate is significantly higher here too. Those damn Cutco's.

Looking at the full report the truth falls somewhere in between. The statitic is a drop of 41% in violent crime since 1995. Firearm use in violent crime has also dropped. However, firearm offences for the purposes of violent crime means the firearm was fired, used as a blunt force weapon or someone was threatened.

The report also covers "other firearms offences" which includes licensing and certification crimes with firearms. This would include having an unlicensed firearm. It is still classified as as gun crime, but doesn't fall within the classification of violent crime (as, logically, it should not). Therefore it appeasr that all firearms offences are caputred including merely having an unlicensed firearm, but the statistic quoted above only deals with violent crime - so non-violent firearm related crime in not included.

Crime has been falling in the US since the mid 70's when it was REALLY bad here. It has leveled off for the last couple of years, but part of the reason for that is increased population in the 15-25 age group. OTOH, prison population has skyrocketed. While I know the US has a very high incarceration rate, I would love to know if the UK's has increased as crime has fallen?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/crime.html

I don't know what the incarceration rate is, but according to this document, the population went up 50% in from 1995 to 2005. That is inamates went from about 50,000 to 75,000 in 2005. I suppose if you take population is 60,000,000 then that is about 0.001% of population if my maths is right.