New Mac App Store

[anyonefortennis]

Thoughts?

Good for the platform? Bad for the Platform?

[tplyons]

Definitely good... all too often I've wanted to install an application and had to run to the Apple store to buy. Now making the iTunes gift cards that people give me for everything 100x more useful.

[Strat-Mangler]

New Mac App Store?

How do I get access to it?

Maybe now, I'll be able to find a few useful apps as opposed to thousands of fart apps.

[Komakino]

Sorry, still miles behind linux and apt-get. If I want to install a program on my computer, for example firefox, I do:

apt-get install firefox

simple. (There is, of course a graphical way to do it too). That's one thing both Mac and Windows could learn from Linux.

[anyonefortennis]

Originally Posted by Strat-Mangler

New Mac App Store?

How do I get access to it?

Maybe now, I'll be able to find a few useful apps as opposed to thousands of fart apps.

Announced yesterday. Live in 90 days.

[Strat-Mangler]

Bah. Not for iPhones but for Mac computers.

Good for them, but useless to me.

[L-A]

To quote someone else, the Mac App Store revolutionizes the way that applications are installed. By doing it the same way that Linux has for years.

[Komakino]

Originally Posted by L-A

To quote someone else, the Mac App Store revolutionizes the way that applications are installed. By doing it the same way that Linux has for years.

But Apple does it for a fee

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by L-A

To quote someone else, the Mac App Store revolutionizes the way that applications are installed. By doing it the same way that Linux has for years.

That's not really true. I have a long Linux background and love the OS, but it is not the same software delivery model at all. First, the Apple app store apps will be guaranteed to work on your computer without library/version issues, second the Apple app store will have commercial apps available that can be purchased with an iTunes account, third, the apps purchased through the Apple app store will all be updated uniformly and seamlessly for the user, forth, the Apple app store will be curated so that the apps should behave in a consistent manner, fifth, with Apple's iAds developers will have incentive to develop free and low cost apps of all varieties, finally, the whole interface will be simple/consistent enough and that average computer users can make sense of it unlike any version of Linux

In the end, for most people, the Mac is like Linux (both run unix derivative operating systems), but without the fragmentation, endless complexity, and everything actually works!

Oh, and no one has to use the app store, there will still be plenty of other software out there.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

In the end...everything actually works!

The thing I love the most about Mac's.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Komakino

Sorry, still miles behind linux and apt-get. If I want to install a program on my computer, for example firefox, I do:

apt-get install firefox

simple. (There is, of course a graphical way to do it too). That's one thing both Mac and Windows could learn from Linux.

Simply, yes, until you start running into version conflicts on a semi-mature installation.

[Komakino]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

That's not really true. I have a long Linux background and love the OS, but it is not the same software delivery model at all. First, the Apple app store apps will be guaranteed to work on your computer without library/version issues, second the Apple app store will have commercial apps available that can be purchased with an iTunes account, third, the apps purchased through the Apple app store will all be updated uniformly and seamlessly for the user, forth, the Apple app store will be curated so that the apps should behave in a consistent manner, fifth, with Apple's iAds developers will have incentive to develop free and low cost apps of all varieties, finally, the whole interface will simple/consistent enough and that average computer users can make sense of it unlike any version of Linux

In the end, for most people, the Mac is like Linux (both run unix derivative operating systems), but without the fragmentation, endless complexity, and everything actually works!

It's been a while since you used Linux, hasn't it?

First, the apps in the apt repository will work on your computer with no issues at all as each repository is unique to the distro and version. If you're linking to third party repos you do so at your own risk, but at least you have that option - with app store you ONLY have the one they give you.

Secondly, you're right, but there are so few commercial linux apps who cares? Thirdly, apps installed on a linux machine are also updated seamlessly for the user. apt-get update will update every app on the machine in one go. It can also be done automatically or as a scheduled job.

Fourthy, I'm not actually sure what you mean by this ().

Fifthly, linux apps are almost always free anyway, so this point is irrelevant. Lastly, if 'average users' can't figure out Synaptic, which is in virtually every distribution and is therefore a consistent interface, then they probably shouldn't be allowed a computer.

So in short the original comment stands - apple do just pinch their ideas from linux. Bar a few bells and whistles this IS the same content delivery system. Only for a fee

Modern linux distros do just 'actually work' with the added bonus that you can make them work how you want to and at a fraction of the price of a massively overpriced Apple machine.

[Komakino]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Simply, yes, until you start running into version conflicts on a semi-mature installation.

I do wonder who these people are who claim to have version conflicts. If everything you get is from the same repository then there are no version conflicts.

I've had Ubuntu installed on my girlfriend's PC for three years now, updating to each new version as it's released, and have had no such problems. I used to have conflicts with my old Slackware install, but we're talking about 10 years ago now. Things have moved on since then!

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Komakino

It's been a while since you used Linux, hasn't it?

First, the apps in the apt repository will work on your computer with no issues at all as each repository is unique to the distro and version. If you're linking to third party repos you do so at your own risk, but at least you have that option - with app store you ONLY have the one they give you.

Secondly, you're right, but there are so few commercial linux apps who cares? Thirdly, apps installed on a linux machine are also updated seamlessly for the user. apt-get update will update every app on the machine in one go. It can also be done automatically or as a scheduled job.

Fourthy, I'm not actually sure what you mean by this ().

Fifthly, linux apps are almost always free anyway, so this point is irrelevant. Lastly, if 'average users' can't figure out Synaptic, which is in virtually every distribution and is therefore a consistent interface, then they probably shouldn't be allowed a computer.

So in short the original comment stands - apple do just pinch their ideas from linux. Bar a few bells and whistles this IS the same content delivery system. Only for a fee

Modern linux distros do just 'actually work' with the added bonus that you can make them work how you want to and at a fraction of the price of a massively overpriced Apple machine.

I ran Linux exclusively in my office and at home for the past 10 years -- Mandrake/Mandriva and FreeBSD mostly. One of the biggest problems with Linux is the lack of commercial software and the lack of centralized control -- as a result, we have a bunch of half baked free apps that don't really work, and endless flavors of Linux that all need to be administered differently. Your apt get update works fine until program/library versions start to have version conflicts -- which will happen as the system matures, at that point it becomes necessary to build programs from source code so that they can compile against the libraries you do have installed. I've done this for years and it's no problem for me, but the average guy/girl can't set a VCR clock, and will never be able to maintain a Linux distro.

As far as making a computer work how you want it to, that's great for you and other tech-nerds, of which I have been one since my first computer (the Timex Sinclair 1000 at the ripe old age of 10). But for most people, who just want email, web browsing, itunes, home movie editing, etc, they just want the computer to work and be easy to use. There is nothing wrong with that. The great thing about OS X is that it can be very easy to use with the GUI, and you can get the BASH console for command line stuff if you want it.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Komakino

I do wonder who these people are who claim to have version conflicts. If everything you get is from the same repository then there are no version conflicts.

I've had Ubuntu installed on my girlfriend's PC for three years now, updating to each new version as it's released, and have had no such problems. I used to have conflicts with my old Slackware install, but we're talking about 10 years ago now. Things have moved on since then!

Not all software you want is going to be pre-compiled in the app get format. Also, with the relatively short upgrade cycle most Linux distros are on the repository for your version is likely not maintained for the life of your os installation. If you want to wipe the os and reinstall once a year it will probably be ok, but for those who want to get things up and keep them for a while, it's going to be a problem.

I remember compiling KDE 3 from source on an older Mandrake install to keep from having to wipe my system -- try that sometime

[Komakino]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Your apt get update works fine until program/library versions start to have version conflicts -- which will happen as the system matures, at that point it becomes necessary to build programs from source code so that they can compile against the libraries you do have installed. I've done this for years and it's no problem for me, but the average guy/girl can't set a VCR clock, and will never be able to maintain a Linux distro.

But this doesn't happen! This is exactly my point. If you use Ubuntu 10.10 (for example) and use their repositories then you DON'T get library version conflicts because all the apps are compiled to use the specific library versions available to that version. This is no different from a DLL conflict in windows.

And, fwiw, my Mom has been using linux for a while now and doesn't run into any issues. She's not a geek. She uses her computer in the same way as an average windows user - she uses the internet, email, etc and if she needs a program she goes to the 'add programs' option on the menu that loads synaptic, finds what she needs and installs it. Just the same as a windows user might go to add/remove programs, but with the added bonus that EVERYTHING is in it.

I'd also disagree with your verdict that we have a collection of half-baked free apps. If we're talking about average users then the apps for the majority of tasks are very complete and in many cases comparable to their commercial counterparts. Firefox, Google Chrome, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Inkscape, Gimp, K3B, Mplayer, VLC. What else do average users do that isn't covered by these mature and competent applications?

The truth is the majority of anti-linux arguments are outdated and no longer valid. They're also based on the misconception that linux should behave like windows when it does many, many things much better than windows (to the degree that my girlfriend's first question about her new Windows 7 laptop was "Can I dual boot it?"!)

[Komakino]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Not all software you want is going to be pre-compiled in the app get format. Also, with the relatively short upgrade cycle most Linux distros are on the repository for your version is likely not maintained for the life of your os installation. If you want to wipe the os and reinstall once a year it will probably be ok, but for those who want to get things up and keep them for a while, it's going to be a problem.

I remember compiling KDE 3 from source on an older Mandrake install to keep from having to wipe my system -- try that sometime

Have done, many times, but not for many years. I haven't needed to! And no, not all software is going to be pre compiled for apt-get - but then not all software is going to be in the apple store.

Also, you don't 'wipe the OS and reinstall' once a year - you choose a distro like Ubuntu where, when a new version is released, you do apt-get upgrade and it moves you up to the latest release, bringing all your apps with it as you go. This is how I've moved from 5.04 (in 2005) to 10.10 (this year) seamlessly. Try doing that with mac or windows.

As usual the arguments against linux are based on misinformation.

[king_biscuit]

FreeBSD has the best software update system of any of the linuxs/unixs. btw, I used to be a Linux zealot too -- I was on the GNU mailing list for years (even had conversations with RMS and gave advice on the GPL -- I'm an attorney by trade. I love linux, but for most people, OS X or Windows is a much better choice as a personal OS.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Komakino

So in short the original comment stands - apple do just pinch their ideas from linux. Bar a few bells and whistles this IS the same content delivery system. Only for a fee

Let's be clear about this, your are talking about a specific Linux distribution Ubuntu which doesn't represent all or even most of Linux. And, the apt-get system in Ubuntu (which is a Debian variant) comes from FreeBSD, so it's not really a Linux invention, but rather a BSD invention. To tie this all together be reminded that OS X is the FreeBSD kernel.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Komakino

But Apple does it for a fee

And they put a branding and marketing wrapper around it, effectively reassuring their customer base that all will be good.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with this, and have been a Mac user in the past. And I appreciate what Apple offers to users. "Setting customer expectations" is an important factor in the user experience, and one that Linux has not addressed yet.