New War Between Northern and Southern Sudan?

[Dr. Cheese]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/23/wo..._r=1&ref=world

Too bad, but this is no surprise.

[bassrique]

I don't know much of this situation, so all I can say is

[Dr. Cheese]

I lived in what is now Northern Sudan while I was researching my dissertation. I was always struck by how much overlap there was between "Arab" and "Black" Sudanese. Here is a picture of some leaders of the Arab army. Sudan is proof that race is more culture than biology.

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I lived in what is now Northern Sudan while I was researching my dissertation. I was always struck by how much overlap there was between "Arab" and "Black" Sudanese. Here is a picture of some leaders of the Arab army. Sudan is proof that race is more culture than biology.

That's the pic from the news story. So those cats consider themselves to be Arabs, and not black?

How does Darfur figure into this?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by bassrique

That's the pic from the news story. So those cats consider themselves to be Arabs, and not black?

How does Darfur figure into this?

The spiritual founder of modern Sudan was from the Darfur area. Darfur literally means realm or land of the Fur, a non-Arab Muslin group. The Fur are farmers and the Arabs are herders. Conflict over land and water is at the heart if the problem. It was also a huge issue between the North and South.

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The spiritual founder of modern Sudan was from the Darfur area. Darfur literally means realm or land of the Fur, a non-Arab Muslin group. The Fur are farmers and the Arabs are herders. Conflict over land and water is at the heart if the problem. It was also a huge issue between the North and South.

Was or is?

[UncleFluffy]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Conflict over land and water is at the heart if the problem.

The South having all the oil is a fairly significant issue as well.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by UncleFluffy

The South having all the oil is a fairly significant issue as well.

It is now, but the conflicts between the groups go back a very long time.

[BartmanPDX]

Not again.

Haven't they had enough?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by BartmanPDX

Not again.

Haven't they had enough?

The issue is that no matter what the map says, the cultural and ecological boundaries between the North and South are very blurry. The oil also makes the separation difficult.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by bassrique

That's the pic from the news story. So those cats consider themselves to be Arabs, and not black?

How does Darfur figure into this?

Yes they consider themselves Arabs since they speak Arabic, and practice Arab culture although the African influence is clear too. In Sudan, the Arabs moved in gradually between roughly the 14th-17th centuries, and they married into local African families. In Sudan, you will a few Arabs who are quite fair and some who look purely black, but most look like brown or darkish African Americans with fairly wavy hair. That said, some Sudanese Arabs have no actual "Arab" DNA, but have simply become culturally Arab.

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Yes they consider themselves Arabs since they speak Arabic, and practice Arab culture although the African influence is clear too. In Sudan, the Arabs moved in gradually between roughly the 14th-17th centuries, and they married into local African families. In Sudan, you will a few Arabs who are quite fair and some who look purely black, but most look like brown or darkish African Americans with fairly wavy hair. That said, some Sudanese Arabs have no actual "Arab" DNA, but have simply become culturally Arab.

Ethnic identity is a situational construct -- thanks for the great illustration.

Prayers for the region -- they've suffered enough. One hopes that this will not spiral out of control to the level of violence they've had in the past.

[warwick.hoy]

Suddenly Mr. Bauers' "maxed out credit cards" and "mountain of bills" (that he was ready to get relief from by way of rapture) seemed menial in comparison.

Best wishes for the innocent people of the Sudan. Albeit with limited knowledge; warfare in that region seems especially brutal and callous.

[basstotheface]

God I feel bad for the North. When they get screwed, which they inevitably will, they will have economy to keep them afloat.

[Dr. Cheese]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/wo..._r=1&ref=world


This not looking good at all. If Sudan forcefully takes these areas, either war will start again, or there will be millions of refugees coming to an already dreadfully poor Southern Sudan.