Nice job being backwards, high school I graduated from...

[aborgman]

I understand Western Michigan can occasionally be pretty backward... but seriously?

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local...sgender-senior

[tycobb73]

It isn't that W MI is backward, its that we are highly religious and slow to embrace change. I'm not going to say wether or not I fit in here because I don't want to get into religion. But this decison was made by a bunch of elder right wing conservatives. We are constantly being used as a test market for new products because if it sells here it sells anywhere. We just don't embrace change. That is the context in which this decision was made.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by tycobb73

It isn't that W MI is backward, its that we are highly religious and slow to embrace change.

Yeah, it's backward.

Believe me, my entire family lives in West Michigan - and I lived most of my life there.

I even expect it from Grand Rapids... which, last I knew, had one of the highest per capita number of churches in the USA.

Muskegon on the other hand generally has a reputation for being one of the less religiously bound cities in West MI. I mean it is the "Beer Tent Capital of the World" after all.

[IconBasser]

well, at least the school seems willing to reverse its decision. From the sounds of it, it sounds more like a confusion over the paperwork (he was originally enrolled as a female) than an actual case of discrimination.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by IconBasser

well, at least the school seems willing to reverse its decision. From the sounds of it, it sounds more like a confusion over the paperwork (he was originally enrolled as a female) than an actual case of discrimination.

Not really.

[sandmangeck]

vagina = girl. penis = boy. she/he hasn't had the sex change yet.

[sonic assassin]

yea.. legally.. a girl. but since when does high school homecoming court reflect the law? let this person identify with whatever sex they choose.

[sandmangeck]

sure. and when i apply for colleges , ill put asian under the demographics, not that I am asian, just that I have always felt that I am asian.

[Deluge Of Sound]

already, the school has made concessions.

"They let me wear a male tux for band uniform, and they're going to let me wear the male robe and cap for graduation."

Teachers, Oakleigh said, use male pronouns.

"They call me Oak, and they say, he, him, his," the teen said.

There seems to be an established precedent here among both students and faculty to refer to this dude as a he.

If it looks like a cat, walks like a cat, talks like a cat, but pisses like a dog...
I'm calling it a cat.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

sure. and when i apply for colleges , ill put asian under the demographics, not that I am asian, just that I have always felt that I am asian.

where you happen to be from wont decide if you win homecoming king. running for president.. much higher standards.

there arent that many crucial gender specific competitions in life. fairly certain the hormones hes taking would get him thrown out of womens olympic events. so otherwise who cares?

high school is a delicate time, especially for someone in his condition. why make a big deal of it.

its just like a girl playing football, which happened at my school. there werent any other kickers, so they got a female soccer player. a big thick hot one at that. she was more than willing to get crushed, and didnt miss a kick. no one said a word. she didnt demand her own locker room. no issues at all. but someone could have made a big stink about it if they wanted.

hes not taking advantage of anyone. hes not more likely to win over other guys because he used to identify as a woman. hes taking what he considers his place. get over it.

im not comfortable with it, and i dont know how id handle it if i was the kids parents, but i can honestly say that i wouldnt be making a big deal over this.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

There seems to be an established precedent here among both students and faculty to refer to this dude as a he.

If it looks like a cat, walks like a cat, talks like a cat, but pisses like a dog...
I'm calling it a cat.

word.

[sandmangeck]

I am also fairly certain that if he/she tried to compete as a male, those ovaries, and vaginal canal would get in the way also. I am not bashing this lady/male. I am simply stating the schools rules.

[Deluge Of Sound]

I think there might be some underlying attraction issues coming into play here...

The real question is, would you tap that?

[sandmangeck]

I personally wouldn't. as, I'm not into short haired girls/boys.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

I am also fairly certain that if he/she tried to compete as a male, those ovaries, and vaginal canal would get in the way also. I am not bashing this lady/male. I am simply stating the schools rules.

so in this person's current state, they likely would not be an olympian. but he plans on having a sex change, which as far as i know makes him legally male. skys the limit then.

[Deluge Of Sound]

[sandmangeck]

True story. I was just bringing up the other side, hopefully they change that rule. Hopefully Oak will keep his crown.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

sure. and when i apply for colleges , ill put asian under the demographics, not that I am asian, just that I have always felt that I am asian.

Those are two totally different things you're attempting to compare. Race is pretty much a matter of fact. You either are or aren't something. You don't develop into a asian guy you either are or aren't one from the start. While some may feel that way about gender I agree with the concept that sexual development is both physical and mental and sometimes they just don't agree.

I have yet to see some guy proclaim to the world that he is asian when he is clearly not and give the explanation that he feels asian and just can't fight who he is. One the other hand there are many people who, mentally (and sometime a mix of both mental and physical aspects), feel that they are the opposite physical sex and they just can't help that.

I believe that if a person truly feels that they are a certain sex and them being treated like so doesn't hurt anyone else then they have the right to be treated that way.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Those are two totally different things you're attempting to compare. Race is pretty much a matter of fact. You either are or aren't something. You don't develop into a asian guy you either are or aren't one from the start. While some may feel that way about gender I agree with the concept that sexual development is both physical and mental and sometimes they just don't agree.

I have yet to see some guy proclaim to the world that he is asian when he is clearly not and give the explanation that he feels asian and just can't fight who he is. One the other hand there are many people who, mentally (and sometime a mix of both mental and physical aspects), feel that they are the opposite physical sex and they just can't help that.

I believe that if a person truly feels that they are a certain sex and them being treated like so doesn't hurt anyone else then they have the right to be treated that way.

That sort of stuff happens all the time when a person rejects the culture they were raised in and joins another one because they feel that it better suits them. Certain people are attracted to aspects of another culture MUCH more so than that of their own, or to use a phrase that's probably more accurate for this discussion, born into, and as a result explore it and immerse themselves in that culture, at some point for some people completely leaving behind, or attempting to leave behind all traces of their previous life. It's almost certainly a small percentage of the population, and they probably don't track it or survey it like they do with transgender people, but the numbers may be comparable.

Now is leaving behind your parents and past's culture the same as changing your gender? No, but the situations could be compared to one another, as abandoning the Catholic life to convert to Wicca or something like that might be looked upon similarly.

Addendum: I mean, I can't be the only person whose heard the phrases "acting white" or "acting black" can I?

[sandmangeck]

Kwesi, I was simply comparing two things we as humans are born into; race, and gender. I agree with your statement of
"I believe that if a person truly feels that they are a certain sex and them being treated like so doesn't hurt anyone else then they have the right to be treated that way."