Number of Black Professors in the UK

[Dr. Cheese]

14,000 British professors

I'm shocked the number is so low. It goes to show that no matter how liberal an institution might be, it is very hard to break out of established habits.

[Jazz Ad]

What's shocking about it?
It's a matter of class, not skin color.
Most black people in UK come from modest backgrounds and are more likely to sweep the floor than become professors.

[Stinsok]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

What's shocking about it?
It's a matter of class, not skin color.
Most black people in UK come from modest backgrounds and are more likely to sweep the floor than become professors.

Wow! Talk about stereotyping!

[Jools4001]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

What's shocking about it?
It's a matter of class, not skin color.
Most black people in UK come from modest backgrounds and are more likely to sweep the floor than become professors.

Spoken with true authority by someone who lives in France

However, I don't buy the fact that the lack of black professors in the UK is due to intitutional racism. If that were true, then all ethnic minorities would suffer the same prejudice, and yet 3.7% of professors are of Asian origin. This is not a large number, but it is broadly proportional to number of Asians in the UK population at 4%.

For some time now in the UK, educationalists have been troubled by the fact that there does not seem to be a culture of encouraging education within the black community, particularly amongst Afro-Carribean boys who are consistently at or near the bottom of performance tables in comparison to other ethnic groups - the "to cool for school" attitude seems to hold sway and parental encouragement is generally lower. You can't get to be a professor if you don't do well at school.

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Black boys separate classes idea

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

Spoken with true authority by someone who lives in France

However, I don't buy the fact that the lack of black professors in the UK is due to intitutional racism. If that were true, then all ethnic minorities would suffer the same prejudice, and yet 3.7% of professors are of Asian origin. This is not a large number, but it is broadly proportional to number of Asians in the UK population at 4%.

For some time now in the UK, educationalists have been troubled by the fact that there does not seem to be a culture of encouraging education within the black community, particularly amongst Afro-Carribean boys who are consistently at or near the bottom of performance tables in comparison to other ethnic groups - the "to cool for school" attitude seems to hold sway and parental encouragement is generally lower. You can't get to be a professor if you don't do well at school.

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Black boys separate classes idea

The funny thing is that in the USA, the Caribbean stereotype is that of the hard working, well-educated, over achiever.

As a black tenured professor, I state that both the USA and UK have a professorate that talks a very liberal game, but whose hiring often doesn't reflect what they say.

[sandmangeck]

When I first read the OP, I thought it was 14,000 black professors. But after clicking the link, I read 50 out of 14,000. That is real low.

[L-A]

Originally Posted by Stinsok

Wow! Talk about stereotyping!

Does he not speak of observed correlation, as opposed to causality?

[Floyd Eye]

Why is it "Talking a liberal a game" to not be racist? I mean if a black applicant is qualified and he gets the job, how does that make an institution "liberal"? Or do you mean to say that institutions act liberal, but then they won't hire unqualified people just to fill liberal quotas, so they really aren't liberal? Do you posit that they should hire people who are less qualified, based on their race or do you posit that they are turning away qualified applicants BECAUSE of their race?

[Ziltoid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The funny thing is that in the USA, the Caribbean stereotype is that of the hard working, well-educated, over achiever.

As a black tenured professor, I state that both the USA and UK have a professorate that talks a very liberal game, but whose hiring often doesn't reflect what they say.

I don't know about other colleges, but here many teacher job open with specifications that has to be met concerning the race and or sex. Each department has to meet about the same % of each group as there is in the population (idk if it's local, provincial or what). They get extra "points" factored in upon reviewing their applications. Personally I think it's stupid as the better should get it, simply, and it did bring us few incompetents that are only there because of their race, minority or sex (an example being one Chinese French teacher that can barely write and speak in French).

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Why is it "Talking a liberal a game" to not be racist? I mean if a black applicant is qualified and he gets the job, how does that make an institution "liberal"? Or do you mean to say that institutions act liberal, but then they won't hire unqualified people just to fill liberal quotas, so they really aren't liberal? Do you posit that they should hire people who are less qualified, based on their race or do you posit that they are turning away qualified applicants BECAUSE of their race?

It sounds like you have some issues I was not talking about and I cannot answer what's on your mind.

My main point is that all things considered the USA does much better job of hiring blacks in academia than the UK. That said, many professors in the social sciences and liberal arts often actively liberal and supporters of diversity but their hiring records often don't reflect what they profess.

[hover]

Man o man if I ain't outraged all over again. Who should I be mad at again?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by hover

Man o man if I ain't outraged all over again. Who should I be mad at again?

Why are you mad? I'm not at all. The point is that things change when folks recognize a problem and work to make it better. Squeaky wheels do get the grease which is why making a bit noise can get results.

[hover]

I apologize, I am not either, I was just bein a little flip...I honestly found the article interesting and what i read surprising for sure, but that's about it...

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

It sounds like you have some issues I was not talking about and I cannot answer what's on your mind.

My main point is that all things considered the USA does much better job of hiring blacks in academia than the UK. That said, many professors in the social sciences and liberal arts often actively liberal and supporters of diversity but their hiring records often don't reflect what they profess.

Oh yeah, I got issues. Ever notice most of your threads are about black and white?


Like I said, what does liberalism have to do with diversity? I am conservative, not racist, half native American with friends of all colors and I completely disagree with affirmative action. People should be hired on their merit, nothing else. I simply asked if you thought people should be hired simply because of their race, to fill a quota. You have evaded this question.

My grandfathers were murdered, had their homeland stolen from them, had their cultural identities wiped out and were herded onto reservations. Use the search feature and see how many posts I have made about that.

[Gomeztool]

Looks like they want more affirmative action over there. That's even more discrimination.

Hire people based on their qualifications and not their color.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Oh yeah, I got issues. Ever notice most of your threads are about black and white?

My grandfathers were murdered, had their homeland stolen from them, had their cultural identities wiped out and were herded onto reservations. Use the search feature and see how many posts I have made about that.

I'm not really responding to the thread but Cheese has the right to post whatever he wants within the rules of the site just as you do. You don't make posts about your race or the challenges you and others have faced because of it. Fine. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow your example. Just sayin'.

Also, Cheese never said that anyone should be hired on anything but merit.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I'm not really responding to the thread but Cheese has the right to post whatever he wants within the rules of the site just as you do. You don't make posts about your race or the challenges you and others have faced because of it. Fine. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow your example. Just sayin'.

Also, Cheese never said that anyone should be hired on anything but merit.

OK Kwesi. Fair enough. Maybe my observations are subjective and or not appropriate and for that I apologize to Dr. Cheese and everyone else.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by Ziltoid

I don't know about other colleges, but here many teacher job open with specifications that has to be met concerning the race and or sex. Each department has to meet about the same % of each group as there is in the population (idk if it's local, provincial or what). They get extra "points" factored in upon reviewing their applications. Personally I think it's stupid as the better should get it, simply, and it did bring us few incompetents that are only there because of their race, minority or sex (an example being one Chinese French teacher that can barely write and speak in French).

I actually like how my program works, the best person for the job is hired and it is a highly sought after position. It has turned my program into one of the best in the country. I am glad that they don't have hiring quotas, it gives me a better education and it gives the country better engineers.

lowsound

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

OK Kwesi. Fair enough. Maybe my observations are subjective and or not appropriate and for that I apologize to Dr. Cheese and everyone else.

Floyd you brought up issues of hiring unqualified people. I said nothing about that and the article said nothing about it. I have no obligation to discuss issues that you raise, anymore than you have talk about what interests me.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Floyd you brought up issues of hiring unqualified people. I said nothing about that and the article said nothing about it. I have no obligation to discuss issues that you raise, anymore than you have talk about what interests me.

Again, fair enough. My apologies.