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  #1  
Old 06-17-2008, 06:23 PM
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Osama Bin Ladens Main man In Europe to BE RELEASED

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HERE'S THE LINK http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...from-jail.html

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Abu Qatada: Islamic cleric is released from jail

By Duncan Gardham and Gordon Rayner

Last Updated: 12:34AM BST 18/06/2008

Abu Qatada, the radical Islamic cleric described as Osama bin Laden’s “right-hand man in Europe”, has been released from jail after a judge ruled that there were no grounds to keep him in prison.
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Abu Qatada rides in the back of a van, after being freed from HMP Long Lartin
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Abu Qatada is driven to his home in west London after being released from HMP Long Lartin
Abu Qatada
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Abu Qatada came to Britain in 1993

The decision to allow him to return to his home in London – where he will receive around £1,000 per month in state benefits – made a mockery of the government’s promise to crack down on terror suspects, and embarrassed the Home Office, which had pledged to deport Qatada to Jordan to face terror charges.

The Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, said she was “extremely disappointed” at the court’s decision to bail Qatada, while the Conservatives branded the decision “offensive”.

Mr Justice Mitting signed an order to release Qatada on bail, with strict conditions, following an earlier Court of Appeal decision to refuse his deportation on the grounds that it would breach human rights law.
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The judge was sitting at the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) in London, the same court which had previously described Qatada as “a truly dangerous individual” who was “heavily involved, indeed at the centre of terrorist activities associated with al-Qa’eda”.

But because Qatada has never been convicted of a criminal offence in the UK, and because he cannot be deported, the judge ruled that he had to be freed pending a last-ditch attempt by the Home Office to have the deportation ruling overturned in the House of Lords.

After being freed from HMP Long Lartin in Worcestershire he is scheduled to be driven to Acton in West London where he must spend at least 22 hours a day at home, wearing an electronic tag.

Police are expected to maintain a constant presence outside Qatada’s home to protect him from vigilante attacks, at an annual cost of tens of thousands of pounds.

The taxpayer will also fund at least £12,000 per year in benefits for Qatada, his wife and five children, even though Qatada was once found to have £170,000 in cash in his possession when he was stopped by police.

Qatada, 47, has been accused of helping to inspire the September 11 attacks after videos of his sermons were found in the flat used by three of the hijackers, including their leader Mohammed Atta.

He is wanted in his native Jordan for allegedly plotting a series of bomb attacks in Amman in 1998 and for providing finance and advice to terrorists planning a series of explosions there on Millennium night.

Although he has been convicted in his absence, he had been promised a retrial, and in 2005 the government secured an agreement with Jordan that returned terror suspects would not be tortured and would be given a fair trial. However, the much-trumpeted Memorandum of Understanding fell at the first hurdle after the Appeal Court judges said evidence against him might have been obtained through torture.

Even if the government is successful in its appeal to the Law Lords, Qatada could take his case to the European Court on the grounds that deportation would breach his right to a fair trial under the European Convention on Human Rights.

It leaves the government’s strategy for deporting terror suspects in tatters, as 11 other suspects awaiting deportation hearings, who include Jordanians and Algerians, are likely to rely on the ruling to keep them in Britain.

Despite Tony Blair’s promise in the aftermath of the suicide bombings on July 7, 2005 that “the rules of the game have changed”, no terror suspects have yet been forcibly removed from the country.

Last night Jacqui Smith said: “The Government’s priority is to protect public safety and national security and we will take all steps necessary to do so.

“I am extremely disappointed that the courts have granted Abu Qatada bail, albeit with very strict conditions. I am appealing to the House of Lords to reverse the decision that it is not safe to deport Qatada and the other Jordanian cases.”

Dominic Grieve, the Shadow Home Secretary, said Qatada’s presence in the UK was “offensive” and called for him to be prosecuted in this country, while Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said the government’s terrorism policies were “not working”.

Whilst on bail Qatada will not be allowed a mobile phone or use of the internet, and his visits will be restricted to family members and solicitors. Among those who are specifically banned from visiting him under the terms of his bail conditions are Osama bin Laden, his Deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu Hamza.

Qatada became one of Britain’s most wanted men in December 2001 when he disappeared after the government announced plans to detain terror suspects without trial. He was tracked down in October 2002 and taken to Belmarsh high security prison in east London, before being released under a control order in 2005. In August that year he was taken back into custody following Jordan’s application for extradition.

When the decision to block his extradition was announced in April, Norman Kember, the British aid worker held hostage in Iraq, offered to put up bail money because Qatada had made an appeal for his release in November 2005. Mr Kember was eventually released by the SAS.

Qatada came to Britain in 1993 using a fake passport and was granted refugee status after claiming asylum for his wife and three children. He has since had two more children, who have British citizenship because they were born here.

The Home Office say he has provided religious and spiritual advice to extremist groups almost from the moment he arrived in the UK.

Qatada was described as bin Laden’s “right hand man in Europe” in 2001 by a Spanish judge investigating European links to the September 11 attacks.
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:01 PM
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If the man has done his time for what he was charged, then I have no problem with leting him out. In a democracy, folks are supposed to do time for crime proven in a court of law, no more, no less.

It is also my guess that the man will not be able so much as pass gas without it being recorded by people who would quickly put him back in jail if he decides to do anything illegal.
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Last edited by Dr. Cheese : 06-17-2008 at 07:06 PM.
  #3  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese View Post
If the man has done his time for what he was charged, then I have no problem with leting him out. In democracy, folks are supposed to do time for crim proven in a court of law, no more, no less.
+1

I would rather not lean in the other direction for anything.
  #4  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese View Post
If the man has done his time for what he was charged, then I have no problem with leting him out. In a democracy, folks are supposed to do time for crime proven in a court of law, no more, no less.

It is also my guess that the man will not be able so much as pass gas without it being recorded by people who would quickly put him back in jail if he decides to do anything illegal.
+2. If they don't have the evidence to keep him further, that's their fault, unfortunately.

OK, isn't this a political thread?
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:26 PM
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i believe this is a political thread and i am guessing it will be closed.
  #6  
Old 06-17-2008, 08:09 PM
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I would tend to think that this could be discussed without being typically political, no?

Paraphrasing: A man was released after doing time for a crime. He is suspected to be involved with other criminals, but the exact links apparently aren't illegal or there is a lack of evidence as he hasn't been tried for those. It is feared he may commit future crimes, but there is no way to know.

I think the circumstances surrounding these facts can be debated without getting too bad.

EDIT: Sorry. I missed the fact that he was never convicted.

Last edited by Son of Sanford : 06-17-2008 at 10:53 PM.
  #7  
Old 06-17-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregC View Post
OK, isn't this a political thread?
Hi Greg,
hmmm......I'm curious as to what office the man holds and for what government then if it is "political"?
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2008, 09:52 PM
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May I suggest a reading of the book "Londanstan" by Melanie Brown. Hopefully Europe (especially England) will wake up before one or more of it's cities lays in ruins, but frankly I doubt it.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2008, 10:52 PM
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Maybe I was wrong. It happens. Ignoring the faith of the guy and the other crimes he is suspected of, the system is the system. The bottom line is that a court ruled that they do not have enough to hold him. What that tells me is that there is a lack of evidence that he committed any crime.

Now I can believe what I want to believe about his involvement, but if the British government can't prove he has done anything illegal, my gut instinct is not likely to do much better. Does not everyone like living in a system where you at least have a scrap of a chance against the men with batons?

ric: It looks like you know he is guilty. Maybe you should turn your evidence over to the British government so this wrong can be righted.
  #10  
Old 06-17-2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ric1312 View Post
disrespectful post edited.
First, I think you could say you strongly disagree with me without calling me names and saying I am full of BS. Being civil does not mean you agree with someone.

I don't think observing the rule of law is a weakness. Democratic governments have ways to keep track of threats, like any other government. 9/11 happened because intelligence and political people in charge of intelligence dropped the ball when evidence of a plot was before their eyes. They did not need to break the constitution to apprehend any of the suspects if they had just handled their business.

I also think that staying true to our principles will do us good in the long run among ourselves, and among those we hope to influence. Just today I saw a story about militants in Afghanistan getting teenage boys to be suicide bombers. No parent wants his or her child to sacrifice his or her life for the goals of some middle aged guy with four wives and a line of credit from his backers. I have lived in the Muslim world, and they love their families just as much as we love ours. Don't be fooled into thinking all Muslims are in love with martyrdom. If we stay true to what we believe, while radicals stoop to more inhumane methods, we will come to look far better to reasonable people in Muslim world than those who know nothing but death.

Finally, if one terror attack is going to put the west so far back on its heels that it gives up its values, how much did we ever really believe in them? We don't want to look like the big bully that totally freaks out the first time he gets slugged in the mouth.
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Last edited by Pacman : 06-18-2008 at 01:08 PM.
  #11  
Old 06-18-2008, 01:02 AM
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Hi Greg,
hmmm......I'm curious as to what office the man holds and for what government then if it is "political"?
Come on now, John. The purpose of the thread is clearly to debate how a suspected lieutenant to Osama bin Laden should be treated by one of our allies. How can that be anything but a political topic?

Furthermore, ric1312's bilious spewing of talk-radio catchphrases (par for the course for him) has just made it even more certain this thread's going to be ugly if it stays open.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2008, 01:18 AM
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2008, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ric1312 View Post
It's bleeding heart attitudes like yours that cause terrorist attacks to happen by making it easy for groups like these to slip by because no one puts their foot down hard. And for some stupid reason people think we should give, enemy combatants from other countries, the same rights as someone charged of crime who is a U.S. citizen.

You are missing the point that he not a part of our, "democracy," he is not a U.S. citizen and doesn't live by our form of government. He is a terrorist. He is an enemy combatant and should be treated as such.
If he is an 'enemy combatant' as you so put it, THERE ARE INTERNATIONAL RULES FOR THAT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burk48237 View Post
May I suggest a reading of the book "Londanstan" by Melanie Brown. Hopefully Europe (especially England) will wake up before one or more of it's cities lays in ruins, but frankly I doubt it.
Oh yes, that seems like a unbiased impartial look at a developing political situation from someone who clearly likes to present a balnced and fair representation of the issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanie_Phillips

I am sure that this lady has an "inside line" on the security issues of the nation that the security services don't have.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:47 AM
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You are missing the point that he not a part of our, "democracy," he is not a U.S. citizen and doesn't live by our form of government.
Speaking of missing the point, this is a story about a Jordanian living in London (on a legitimate visa) being tried in ENglish Courts. What does you sentence above have to do with this case at all?

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Old 06-18-2008, 04:04 AM
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Best put on your flame redundant suit ric1312.
I'd join in on the flaming but knowing me I'd go overboard and get infractions.

Anyway, I agree with Dr.Cheese.
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Old 06-18-2008, 04:28 AM
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May I suggest a reading of the book "Londanstan" by Melanie Brown.
you mean scary spice?

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Old 06-18-2008, 04:40 AM
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you mean scary spice?

AHHH!!!

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Old 06-18-2008, 05:20 AM
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He's not been detained in the UK for any crime.

He's been detained in the UK for entering on a forged passport. He's been tried inabsentia in Jordan for associating with a string of hotel bombings in the 1990s.

We can't send him back to Jordan because people who gave evidence at his trial were tortured and we're signed up to the European Convention Of Human Rights.

He's been released on bail, electronically tagged, unable to leave his house for more than 2 periods of 60 minutes each day. He's not allowed to visit mosques, use the internet, phones or mobile phones.

Q: How can anyone have a problem with this?
A: Misinformed, people burning with self-righteous partisan politics.
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Last edited by Toasted : 06-18-2008 at 05:36 AM.
  #20  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by burk48237 View Post
May I suggest a reading of the book "Londanstan" by Melanie Brown. Hopefully Europe (especially England) will wake up before one or more of it's cities lays in ruins, but frankly I doubt it.
1) Lol. You truly are a laugh.

2) London is spelt with an o and the book is called "Londonistan". Is this the last in a string of examples of you flagrantly quoting sources that you havn't even read? Looks like it to me.
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