Pardon in Racially Tinged Case

[Dr. Cheese]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/ny...e.html?_r=1&hp

I forgot all about this. I see the shooter has been pardoned now. This is a difficult case. I can see how the man felt threatened, but shooting unarmed people will get you convicted. The same thing happened in an all black case in St. Louis County a few years ago. That said, a gang going to someone's house and threatening violence is asking for trouble. There are too many guns in America to pull a stunt like that!

[MIJ-VI]

...The white teenagers had arrived to challenge Mr. White’s son Aaron, then 19, to a fight. The white teenagers used threats, profanities and racial epithets outside the house. Mr. White, who had been asleep, grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in his garage...

They were looking for trouble and they found it...

[Number27]

Mr. Brewington said .... that the White family was happy with the decision.

I dunno, they don't sound to happy to me...

Reached at his auto body shop in Port Jefferson Station, the teenager’s father, Daniel Cicciaro, reacted with annoyance when a reporter identified himself.

“Yeah, what do you need? An oil change?” he said. “We got nothing to say about it.”

all joking aside..

In the case of Mr. White, his lawyer, Mr. Brewington, acknowledged that race had played a big role in the trial, but he cautioned against viewing the commutation as racially based, especially because Mr. Paterson is black.

“He reviewed this matter as he reviews any other matter,” he said. “People have to be careful not to fan the flames of racism. If the governor happened to be white and he commuted the sentence of a white person, would that be an issue?”

If that hypothetical trial also had racial overtones then yes it concievebly could be.

[burk48237]

From my POV, I'm not sure he should have been charged in the first place. I would be interested to know the details of the "illegal weapon" because NY State has a myriad of local gun ordinances and laws. Having said that in MI or any state with the Castle doctrine he would not have been charged. A mob of drunks on your front yard looking for a fight and screaming (any kind of epitaphs) is most certainly a threat and should be dealt with accordingly. It appears to me the real crime was that the prosecutor decided to place charges.

It's interesting how many of the states more restrictive gun laws were written during the 1930s to prevent African Americans from being able to get firearms to defend themselves against the Klan. MI pistol permit law was specifically written to give the local (white) sheriff the authority to deny carry or purchase privileges to whoever they wanted to. As the laws got older it became about political patronage (if you contributed to his campaign you got your permit) but they were originally written after a couple of incidents were African Americans with pistols successfully chased off the Klan.

[thumpbass1]

I'm sorry that this tragedy had unfolded the way it did, but those punks were begging for bad trouble. I have to agree with the pardon. As to the particulars of the case, hindsight is always 20/20 in regards to what should have, or could have happened. I think justice has been served. Having grown up in Nebraska, I grew up in a midwestern culture of where home protection under conditions of a bonafide threat to one's life, limb, or property, meant making sure the family 12 gauge could be loaded quickly, while someone else went to call or fetch the sheriff, police, etc. That was under ideal conditions. So here's my family story of home defense.

My Great Grandmother was stuck out on the farm, long , long, ago, while her dad was off on a cattle buying trip. She being all of 12 years old was left to watch over her 9 year sister, as their mother had passed away a couple of years prior. Well, it happened to be that some transient, had been scoping the place out, camping out and staying hidden on the edges of the farm, and once he saw that their dad was gone, he decided to make a move on the girls . To make it short, he got a hide full of buck shot, dispensed by my Great Grandmother, through a barricaded bedroom door, for his troubles, where upon, I guess he fled howling into the night. He was arrested by the sheriff a couple days later camped out near a local creek, still licking his wounds. It makes me wonder what would have happened if she hadn't had a shotgun, and Great Grandpa's instruction to know how to use one. Especially when a 12 gauge can be a load to handle for a 12 year old boy, let alone a girl of the same age.

Anyways I do believe in calling the local authorities first and foremost, but one should also be prepared for situations where one may have to do the business of defending themselves if need be. Of course whack jobs that shoot first, and ask no questions until after, are a whole different bad situation entirely.

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by thumpbass1

...I have to agree with the pardon...

Mr. White wasn't pardoned . . . the sentence was commuted . . .

[Relic]

I personally don't see a problem here..

[Dr. Cheese]

The issue is a Black felon getting a commutation from a Black governor. There
were fears it would be seen ad racial favoritism. That is not fair but people can be that way sometimes.

Personally, I hate that a young died, but he put himself in that situation. Mr. White didn't go looking for him.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The issue is a Black felon getting a commutation from a Black governor. There
were fears it would be seen ad racial favoritism. That is not fair but people can be that way sometimes.

Personally, I hate that a young died, but he put himself in that situation. Mr. White didn't go looking for him.

I would suggest to you that in this age most of us don't see the issue that way at all, as evidenced by the preceeding posts. Perhaps society is a bit more colorblind then you see it as. I suspect most of us value the right of someone to protect their family and their house and believe anyone should have that right no matter what their color. I don't care if it was a white guy protecting his family or a black guy, and I care less wether it was a bunch of urban gangstas or some drunken white hooligans. He had an apparently legitimate reason to fear for the safety of his family. As far as the skin color of the governor, I would suggest to you that while there are still remnants of racism left in this country they are just that, remnants. I'm more pissed that NY State doesn't allow people to protect themselves, he should have never been a black felon. And he should have been pardoned not had his sentence commuted

[arbitrary]

Racism most certainly still exists in society and from what I understand the attempt to maintain a colorblind stance doesn't help the issue either.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by arbitrary

Racism most certainly still exists in society and from what I understand the attempt to maintain a colorblind stance doesn't help the issue either.

First, I didn't say it doesn't exist. But evidently no one sees this as a "racially tinged" case. I said remnants of racism exist. And I'll stand by it.

As far as a "colorblind stance" any other position is by its definition is racist. Colorblind when it comes to value, justice, and treatment should be the goal of all of us.

[arbitrary]

Originally Posted by burk48237

First, I didn't say it doesn't exist. But evidently no one sees this as a "racially tinged" case. I said remnants of racism exist. And I'll stand by it.

As far as a "colorblind stance" any other position is by its definition is racist. Colorblind when it comes to value, justice, and treatment should be the goal of all of us.

I didn't say that you didn't say it didn't exist.

I've come to understand that understanding and seeing someone's race as well as their experience as an individual and as a member of that race is important. I find that "colorblind" refers to conformity to pre-established social norms. I'd rather acknowledge someone's race and acknowledge that it does in fact play an important role throughout life. But to do so with as little discrimination/judgment as I am able.

But I don't know much about this specific case at all.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by burk48237

I would suggest to you that in this age most of us don't see the issue that way at all, as evidenced by the preceeding posts. Perhaps society is a bit more colorblind then you see it as. I suspect most of us value the right of someone to protect their family and their house and believe anyone should have that right no matter what their color. I don't care if it was a white guy protecting his family or a black guy, and I care less wether it was a bunch of urban gangstas or some drunken white hooligans. He had an apparently legitimate reason to fear for the safety of his family. As far as the skin color of the governor, I would suggest to you that while there are still remnants of racism left in this country they are just that, remnants. I'm more pissed that NY State doesn't allow people to protect themselves, he should have never been a black felon. And he should have been pardoned not had his sentence commuted

I was talking about the governor's concerns, not mine. I would have gone for a pardon myself, but we do live in a very partisan time, and it would be naive to think that a poliltician would not be concerned about a racial or "soft on crime," attack for the commutation (I agree it should have been a pardon. Since Gov. Paterson is stepping down, he could have gone all the way with no personal blowback.)