PayPal doesn't protect off-Ebay purchases

mr_goodbomb · #1 08-09-2010, 02:39 PM

I purchased my Mesa M-2000 a little over a month ago from a guy who had it listed on Ebay and it didn't sell. $460. It arrived, I didn't get to use it for rehearsals much, that band hasn't been very active lately due to health things and personal things with different members. I've practiced I believe three times with it so far. The third time was right before a show, and it kept cutting out entirely, dropping all volume and coming back a few seconds to 10 seconds later. I checked the cables, the instrument, the cab, everything else is fine. It's the amp. I contacted the seller and started a claim on PayPal. It was immediately closed.

I just spoke with someone over the phone. They said that they don't protect off-Ebay purchases listed as "not as described" (which includes non-functioning on arrival). He even went so far as to tell me that, since I've been a member for over 10 years, I should know these things. I'm furious. I'll never use their piece of **** service again or give them a healthy chunk of every item I sell. I'm probably made them a few hundred bucks just from my sales alone, not to mention the things I've purchased and were collected for fees from the seller. I'm livid. I thought I should warn people. Don't trust this company.

**Staccato** · #2 08-09-2010, 02:50 PM

I thought they might protect those purchases. Thanks for the mention.

bongomania · #3 08-09-2010, 02:54 PM

To be honest, this really is a situation where you should have known better. Paypal does not claim to cover all non-Ebay purchases. They only claim to cover Ebay purchases that fall within their rules, as well as some non-Ebay purchases with large retailers. Nowhere do they say you can complain a month after you receive something from a private party in a non-Ebay deal. It's been this way ever since they instituted "buyer protection" however many years ago.

i_got_a_mohawk · #4 08-09-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_goodbomb

I purchased my Mesa M-2000 a little over a month ago from a guy who had it listed on Ebay and it didn't sell. $460. It arrived, I didn't get to use it for rehearsals much, that band hasn't been very active lately due to health things and personal things with different members. I've practiced I believe three times with it so far. The third time was right before a show, and it kept cutting out entirely, dropping all volume and coming back a few seconds to 10 seconds later. I checked the cables, the instrument, the cab, everything else is fine. It's the amp. I contacted the seller and started a claim on PayPal. It was immediately closed.

I just spoke with someone over the phone. They said that they don't protect off-Ebay purchases listed as "not as described" (which includes non-functioning on arrival). He even went so far as to tell me that, since I've been a member for over 10 years, I should know these things. I'm furious. I'll never use their piece of **** service again or give them a healthy chunk of every item I sell. I'm probably made them a few hundred bucks just from my sales alone, not to mention the things I've purchased and were collected for fees from the seller. I'm livid. I thought I should warn people. Don't trust this company.

Sorry, but you really should have followed the terms and whatnot that they operate by. You assuming they do something which they don't, is your fault, not theirs.

You'll also find that many things have a service charge. If you think ebay and paypal take a large chunk, I'd advise never using a real auction house!

You said you contacted the seller, what is he saying about it?

If it is only this 3rd time that a problem arose, are you sure you didn't knock the amp or anything? Either way, it's one of the risks of buying something used, and therefore no warranty (well, most of the time)

MJ5150 · #5 08-09-2010, 03:14 PM

There are all kinds of warnings about this on eBay and PayPal. Your ignorance cost you $460. Not too bad in the big scheme of things.

The saving grace you have is Mesa is run by a bunch of musicians who care about the products they create. Mesa will fix you up proper, give them a call.

-Mike

mr_goodbomb · #6 08-09-2010, 03:16 PM

Ebay offers protection for any transaction within 45 days. It's been less than 45 days. I filed a claim. I assumed, considering how much money they take from every item I sell (I'm a power seller, mind you), that they'd protect it as long as it was within those bounds (45 days). They do not.

The amp was taken out of the box, put in a rack, placed on top of a cab, and never moved since it arrived. I've turned it on 3 times, once when it first arrived, once for a practice, and once for this last practice previous to a show. No, I didn't drop the thing.

The seller basically said "not my problem." I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing when he dumped an amp off on someone a few hundred miles away via a non-protection payment method.

What astounds me is that, if this were an Ebay item, they'd have refunded me by now, or be in the process of doing so. However, because it's not...

bongomania · #7 08-09-2010, 03:18 PM

YOU DIDN'T BUY IT ON EBAY. Why would their 45-day rule apply to you AT ALL?

bongomania · #8 08-09-2010, 03:22 PM

And furthermore, it's not at all like the seller set out to sell via a non-protected method--he had it up on Ebay originally, which would have been a protected deal! So the seller was not trying to pull anything. Instead it is YOU who decided to make him an offer via a non-protected payment method, and YOU who doesn't read the rules.

mr_goodbomb · #9 08-09-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

YOU DIDN'T BUY IT ON EBAY. Why would their 45-day rule apply to you AT ALL?

Settle down, champ. The 45-day rule applies to EVERYTHING on PayPal, Ebay or not. You can file a claim any time within 45 days after the item is paid for no matter where it was purchased from. However, the coverage of which changes depending on venue, which is the issue here.

You're awfully angry for this having nothing to do with you whatsoever.

mr_goodbomb · #10 08-09-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

And furthermore, it's not at all like the seller set out to sell via a non-protected method--he had it up on Ebay originally, which would have been a protected deal! So the seller was not trying to pull anything. Instead it is YOU who decided to make him an offer via a non-protected payment method, and YOU who doesn't read the rules.

I would have done it through Ebay had he relisted. He didn't suggest to do so. He keeps falling back on how it was listed "as is," as if selling something used and putting "as is" makes any fault or issue that comes with it when it arrives acceptable. It doesn't.

You're kind of being a huge jerk to an absolute stranger, you do understand that, yes? Are you personal friends with this guy or something?

bongomania · #11 08-09-2010, 03:30 PM

I don't know you, I don't know him. I only know that I hate it when people cry about being victimized, when they brought it on themselves. You can say I'm "being a jerk" to you, but frankly I consider it "tough love". You are not a victim of the seller, and you are not a victim of Paypal. You made some faulty assumptions and choices on your own that have now bitten you on the butt.

i_got_a_mohawk · #12 08-09-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_goodbomb

I would have done it through Ebay had he relisted. He didn't suggest to do so. He keeps falling back on how it was listed "as is," as if selling something used and putting "as is" makes any fault or issue that comes with it when it arrives acceptable. It doesn't.

You're kind of being a huge jerk to an absolute stranger, you do understand that, yes? Are you personal friends with this guy or something?

So the seller must have rigged it so it would work a couple times before showing signs of a problem?

I put sold "as is" whenever I sell any electrical items, a component could fail at any time and damage caused by the buyer could otherwise be bounced back by them, claiming it must have been broken when they bought the item.

Have you tried calling paypal and, if they say you aren't covered, asking to talk to a supervisor and then explain that they claim you are covered?

MJ5150 · #13 08-09-2010, 03:32 PM

*Arnold voice on*
Stop whining
*Arnold voice off*

Now go call Mesa and get your amp fixed.

-Mike

mr_goodbomb · #14 08-09-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

So the seller must have rigged it so it would work a couple times before showing signs of a problem?

I put sold "as is" whenever I sell any electrical items, a component could fail at any time and damage caused by the buyer could otherwise be bounced back by them, claiming it must have been broken when they bought the item.

Have you tried calling paypal and, if they say you aren't covered, asking to talk to a supervisor and then explain that they claim you are covered?

I used it twice prior to this practice, both of which we basically "click, on, hum, note, yeah it's a bass amp." The first "practice I used it for was extremely short.

Yes, I've called PayPal, spoken to a supervisor, all they're offering is to speak to the seller, who's going to tell them the same thing.

mr_goodbomb · #15 08-09-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ5150

*Arnold voice on*
Stop whining
*Arnold voice off*

Now go call Mesa and get your amp fixed.

-Mike

I've called Mesa. I just don't feel I should have to pay to have an amp repaired that was listed as having no issues and working perfectly, that I purchased so recently that the problem couldn't have been caused by myself.

MJ5150 · #16 08-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Let's see the auction. Do you have a link?

-Mike

mr_goodbomb · #17 08-09-2010, 03:45 PM

I hate doing this (posting the link with all the info). Someone always feels the need to cause trouble and do silly things. But I hope the forumites here at TB are a little more mature.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

i_got_a_mohawk · #18 08-09-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_goodbomb

I used it twice prior to this practice, both of which we basically "click, on, hum, note, yeah it's a bass amp." The first "practice I used it for was extremely short.

Yes, I've called PayPal, spoken to a supervisor, all they're offering is to speak to the seller, who's going to tell them the same thing.

Tell them that you have and the seller is doing nothing about it.

mr_goodbomb · #19 08-09-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Tell them that you have and the seller is doing nothing about it.

I did just that. They said, "we're sorry to hear that, but that's as far as we can assist you."

They had suggested early on in the conversation that the seller is potentially not trustworthy, and we got to this point I reminded them that they said that.

bongomania · #20 08-09-2010, 03:49 PM

https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marke...20for%20Buyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paypal's User Agreement

13.1 PayPal’s Protection Programs for Buyers.

PayPal has two programs to help protect you:
*PayPal Buyer Protection (for eligible items purchased on eBay)
*PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy (for all other items purchased on or off eBay)
...
13.5 PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy.
1. PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy. The Buyer Complaint Policy is PayPal’s process to help you resolve a problem directly with the Seller through the PayPal Resolution Center for purchases that are not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.
The PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy is similar to PayPal Buyer Protection in that it enables buyers to file Disputes for Items Not Received (INR), or for items that are Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). By filing a Dispute, you can communicate with the Seller and attempt to resolve the problem. If you are unable to resolve the problem, you may escalate an Item Not Received (INR) Dispute to a Claim – but you may not escalate a Significantly Not as Described Dispute to a Claim.
...You should not escalate a Dispute for Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) to a Claim because PayPal will not make a decision on a SNAD Claim under the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy.