People, good or bad?

[Joe Gress]

[original rant] Well, here goes. So I met this girl in the beginning of the semester that completely blew my mind on how she acted, how she looked, and what she did. (yeah, it was pretty much a crush on first sight) but the thing about her was that she was so different from everybody else that I was drawn completely towards her. she just had something that made me think that good god, she's amazing. I spent the entire semester trying my dammed hardest to try and impress her. But as it turned out, her current boyfriend at the time was pretty much treating her like **** (to put it lightly). she claimed to be my best friend, but I didn't think she trusted me that much. Turns out she didn't. She never told me about what he did to her till it was way to late, and what he did is pretty much unforgivable. I tried my hardest to offer my advice and to give her a little ray of light in her dark situation, but our trust of each other had gone down so much that we didn't believe a word each other was saying, so it finally down came to me saying I didn't want to hurt her any further than I already had and say goodbye. Except now I feel like I have given up on a friend in her time of need (the situation she is dealing with isn't over with yet), and I have given up on trying to make sense of the whole situation and bring another person back to believing that things do happen to be good, no matter how much life screws things up. [original rant]







Yeah I know the whole rule about girls and summer and all that. I've moved beyond the point of realizing I'm not tapping that, and have moved on and tapped else where. Thats not the problem, trust me.


I guess my problem is, how in the hell do you deal with people? Are people mostly good, or mostly bad? Is our human intuition drawn towards good and the good of all mankind, or is it drawn towards evil and the selfish intent of trying our damnedest to achieve personal happiness?

[hover]

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

[original rant] Well, here goes. So I met this girl in the beginning of the semester that completely blew my mind on how she acted, how she looked, and what she did. (yeah, it was pretty much a crush on first sight) but the thing about her was that she was so different from everybody else...the way she talked in hushed tones about government conspiracies while wearing a tinfoil bra....just...awesome.

Seriously tho, you can sit there and kick yourself for no reason, or you can take comfort in the fact that you did what you could, but in the end the investment in the friendship / trust wasn't met in the middle, and it wasn't healthy for you to continue and did what you needed to do. I choose B.

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by hover

Seriously tho, you can sit there and kick yourself for no reason, or you can take comfort in the fact that you did what you could, but in the end the investment in the friendship / trust wasn't met in the middle, and it wasn't healthy for you to continue and did what you needed to do. I choose B.

Yeah I know. Except I guess my greatest fear in life is loosing friends, and she seemed to be a good friend for so long.

[hover]

I know the feeling, but it's at the heart of what I was saying. A true friend doesn't just take take take. Or keep guards up. A real good friend is an open book because they have no reason not to be.

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

Yeah I know. Except I guess my greatest fear in life is loosing friends, and she seemed to be a good friend for so long.

Greatest fear, eh? You better drop that attitude or you will be a slave to so-called friends' whims and/or abused as a sucker. Unless you think drama adds to your life.
Be a good person, have reasoned principals. You will have friends. But choose them wisely.

You do not need to fear losing friends if they really are friends, unless you betray them or they you.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I think good and bad is often a matter of perspective (often, not always).

I'd say people are mostly selfish tho.

Oh, and girls like a-holes. Don't know why, just seems to be the way it goes!

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by hover

I know the feeling, but it's at the heart of what I was saying. A true friend doesn't just take take take. Or keep guards up. A real good friend is an open book because they have no reason not to be.

She was there for me more times than not though. That's what really makes this hard. It really started going downhill when I realized she was holding a lot back from me though.

Originally Posted by MEKer

Greatest fear, eh? You better drop that attitude or you will be a slave to so-called friends' whims and/or abused as a sucker. Unless you think drama adds to your life.
Be a good person, have reasoned principals. You will have friends. But choose them wisely.

You do not need to fear losing friends if they really are friends, unless you betray them or they you.

Yeah, I'm starting to learn that real quick. I'm not a sucker and I haven't been one, but I do let people get to me a lot. It sucks, and it takes away from life for sure. I'm learning I guess.

It just sucks when the person that you thought was being honest with you and that they were being what you always wanted in a friend was completely fake, and you tend to take it hard when you tell them to have a nice life.

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Oh, and girls like a-holes. Don't know why, just seems to be the way it goes!

Meh, I went down the ******* road once, caused more problems than good, and I'll never do it again.

[knumbskull]

OK so if i have read the 1st post correctly:

- you can't force someone to involve you in a given aspect of their life, if they don't want to.

- whatever nastiness her boyfriend did: at the time, she seems to have felt it was her business. unfortunately. and for all your goodwill and wanting to help, it was her business.

- from her point of view - since you obviously liked her as more than a friend, and i'm guessing she could tell this - getting you involved would have thrown a whole lot of other factors into the cooking pot.

- ignoring all psychodramas and grand philosophical debates about trust and good and evil, what it comes down to is this: you struck out. sorry about that. worse things happen at sea.

- shoulders back, chest out and enjoy the rest of your summer


*puffs pipe*

[Joe Gress]

OK so if i have read the 1st post correctly:

- you can't force someone to involve you in a given aspect of their life, if they don't want to.

- whatever nastiness her boyfriend did: at the time, she seems to have felt it was her business. unfortunately. and for all your goodwill and wanting to help, it was her business.

- from her point of view - since you obviously liked her as more than a friend, and i'm guessing she could tell this - getting you involved would have thrown a whole lot of other factors into the cooking pot.

Yup, your exactly right.

Originally Posted by knumbskull

- ignoring all psychodramas and grand philosophical debates about trust and good and evil, what it comes down to is this: you struck out. sorry about that. worse things happen at sea.

- shoulders back, chest out and enjoy the rest of your summer


*puffs pipe*

and yup, your right. I'm moving on for sure, and the rest of summers going to be grand.

But accepting a loss sucks man. I hate loosing.

[knumbskull]

ah good luck, you'll be alright!

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

Yup, your exactly right.


and yup, your right. I'm moving on for sure, and the rest of summers going to be grand.

But accepting a loss sucks man. I hate loosing.

You did not lose anything-you learned a lesson.
You may have even been used a bit--people like a shoulder sometimes, but adios when the shoulder is not needed or when the shoulder can lead to more problems.

[jmattbassplaya]

This is why guys and girls can`t be friends so long as either party is interested in having the sex... and even then it`d be ill advised and considered a waste of time and energy that could be placed on someone else willing to have the sex with you. I consider this the main lesson learned here.

Most women are idiots and are users. Many are only interested in alpha male types and that`s understandable given that there`s a certain level of strength, confidence, and finesse (things almost all women want) that is most often only found in guys known as butt munches (because all other guys are just too shy or insecure to have these traits). Add to the fact there`s almost always at least 5 other guys in line for any woman who are willing to be their friend, pal, buddy, etc... just to get a shot of her realizing how "great" they are and should actually be their boyfriend and you soon realize just how screwed you are. Don`t fall victim for this.

The second lesson here is people always look out for themselves before anyone else. I really do believe it`s in our nature to be good from the start, however, our society is structured around people being greedy, backstabbing, and cunning just to get ahead so that they will come out on top and get the best possible results for themselves. Anyways, I say that to tell you not too worry about losing friends. I`ve known guys for 12 years who I would of taken a bullet for and have had them back stab me because they were worried about losing face in front of others instead of doing what was right. It sucked and I got screwed over royally, but it taught me an important lesson in life - choose your friends well, don`t be a victim, never expect others to be there for you, etc... I wouldn`t worry about losing her as a friend because she wasn`t being that great to you anyways. She was doing what was best for her, so do what is best for you.

[superfunk47]

Joe, you're a good guy, a cool guy, with plenty going for you. No need to fret over one girl - there will be plenty more, and plenty of good friends along the way. The thing is, if you need to worry about a friendship when it's already "established," it's probably not really all that established, and probably not worth worrying about. The best friendships and relationships are the ones that just work without you having to break your back trying to make them fit. (That's not to say that they don't take work, but that's very different.)

[IconBasser]

Originally Posted by superfunk47

Joe, you're a good guy, a cool guy, with plenty going for you. No need to fret over one girl - there will be plenty more, and plenty of good friends along the way. The thing is, if you need to worry about a friendship when it's already "established," it's probably not really all that established, and probably not worth worrying about. The best friendships and relationships are the ones that just work without you having to break your back trying to make them fit. (That's not to say that they don't take work, but that's very different.)

the man speaks truth. Don't spend your time beating yourself up trying to acquire the perfect friends, or the perfect girl. Just make friends wherever you go, talk to whoever is there. You'd be surprised how these seemingly random and insignificant people will end up being your lifelong companions.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Generally speaking, our culture is devoid of things that help people turn into worthwhile human beings.

You, however, dig the Melvins, so clearly you're an exception.

[Joe Gress]

Thanks guys. I completely agree with what your saying, except that I still have a pipe dream of hoping there's good in all people I guess. It'll probably screw me over a few more times than not, but I firmly believe and hope in it. I did learn (and I'm still learning) what came of this, and its something that will stick with me for a long time. Friends come and friends go, but I wanted more. Oh well, lesson learned. And don't worry about me sticking to this, I've moved on. It just helps to hear that I'm not totally wrong about everything, when that's what it sure does feel like. Plus its good to write **** down. Makes me think and realize just how silly it all is when I see the words in front of me.

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by IconBasser

the man speaks truth. Don't spend your time beating yourself up trying to acquire the perfect friends, or the perfect girl. Just make friends wherever you go, talk to whoever is there. You'd be surprised how these seemingly random and insignificant people will end up being your lifelong companions.

Of all the friends I've realized that are the best, its the ones I hate and don't get along with at all at first. Seems weird...

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

You, however, dig the Melvins, so clearly you're an exception.

Tuesday night, I'm seeing them at the Ogden in Denver.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by superfunk47

The best friendships and relationships are the ones that just work without you having to break your back trying to make them fit. (That's not to say that they don't take work, but that's very different.)

+1,000

[EBodious]

there is a bumper sticker on a car i often pass on my way to work. it reads: change is inevitable, growth is optional.

i appreciate the regular reminder.

it is harsh but true. i think the only loss is in not learning and growing. i think all the wisdom yuo are getting here is spot on. and yes, typing things out and bouncing it off other folks is very helpful for perspective. it is way too easy to lose perspective when you get sucked into a one-on-one drama.

in a zen-paradox kinda way, thinking of yourself first is how you do best for others. i think people who treat others poorly are, at their core, not taking care of themselves. i think that people who know themselves well and understand their personal boundaries will be better friends to others, even though they tend not to be push-overs (aka: enablers) when some one is in crisis. it's a tough love kinda thing.

i hope you don't take this the wrong way, but, it sounds to me like maybe the issue with her not being completely trusting of and forthcoming with you, is more your issue than hers. as was said, how much she shared with you was her call. how you choose to accept and deal with it is your call.

i think of myself as an optimist but also as a healthy cynic. i don't think they are mutually exclusive terms. usually, when i think someone is not "liking" me (or slipping out of my life, etc), i think, "what did i do?" and then realize that it probly doesn't have to do with me at all.

and on that note:

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

Are people mostly good, or mostly bad? Is our human intuition drawn towards good and the good of all mankind, or is it drawn towards evil and the selfish intent of trying our damnedest to achieve personal happiness?

i think the answer to this question says more about the person answering than about "people." ultimately, we choose the perspective we want to have. and can change that choice at anytime. i strongly encourage you to not give in to the dark side, that is, become cynical in matters of the heart. friendship and love are there own rewards; don't let the turkeys get you down....

yeah, i could quote cheesy dime-store philosophies all day.

ok, one last one cause i just can't help myself:
i recently saw the movie -a serious man. i really dug it; i think it's theme is what i am getting at here. the main character tries sooo hard to think everything thru and do what is right as his world falls apart. but surrounding all the interpersonal drama he, his wife, his kids, his friends and neighbors are going thru, the world just keeps plowing forward. as if their lives are really small in the grand scheme, and ya gotta just do what seems rite for you at the time and keep moving forward. stagnation doesn't lead anywhere good. change is inevitable, growth is optional.

[EdHunter]

It depends. Some people I have all the time in the world for, and will stop what I'm doing to talk to/help/spend time with. But others I'll just sort of leave alone.

So it's either nice, or indifferent. Any dickheads or similar I just tend to leave alone.

But in response to OP; I'd try and get back on good terms with her, if she needs help, and you can help, it's probably for the best you try to.