Performance enhancing drugs

[bmc]

My wife had an appointment with an endocrinoligist this morning. At one point during the discussion, he mentioned that a pharmaceutical company in Sweden had developed this drug in response to an ultra rare medical disorder. So rare, in fact, that it affects 1-3 people per year globally. It's characteristics are not unlike substances taken by athletes, with the sole exception of being undetectable.

What this endocrinoloigist found intriguing was that despite the market for this drug being extremely limited (1-3 people per year worldwide), the drug is in production and is exceedingly expensive. Yet, they are selling it.

Now...my wife cannot remember the name of the illness or the drug. But the context of conversation was the striking performance of athletes at the Olympic games underway in Beijing.

There's a great saying that if something is too good to be true, it usually is.

Who knows?

[EricF]

The motivation of cheaters is usually ahead of the curve of detection technology.

[cdef]

Originally Posted by EricF

The motivation of cheaters is usually ahead of the curve of detection technology.

AICAR, although it sounds like sci-fi, is a reality, and the testing protocols may not have made it in time to the Beijing Olympics.

[Revvv]

Originally Posted by cdef

AICAR, although it sounds like sci-fi, is a reality, and the testing protocols may not have made it in time to the Beijing Olympics.

I want some

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by EricF

The motivation of cheaters is usually ahead of the curve of detection technology.

+1

[thefruitfarmer]

It can't be good for you in the long term.

[Jools4001]

Proper prescription drugs cost such a huge amount of money to develop and patent that there is no way in the world that drug companies would do that sort of R&D for 1-3 new customers a year.

Even if they did, the drug would be so expensive that no individual, insurance company or national health service would be able to afford it.

On the flip side, if it really had 1-3 legitimate customers per year, but a million dodgy athletes looking for a black market fix, then no reputable drug company could afford to be associated with it.

So if it exists, it's probably some back street concoction brewed from something originally meant for vetinary purposes

[bmc]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

Proper prescription drugs cost such a huge amount of money to develop and patent that there is no way in the world that drug companies would do that sort of R&D for 1-3 new customers a year.

Even if they did, the drug would be so expensive that no individual, insurance company or national health service would be able to afford it.

On the flip side, if it really had 1-3 legitimate customers per year, but a million dodgy athletes looking for a black market fix, then no reputable drug company could afford to be associated with it.

So if it exists, it's probably some back street concoction brewed from something originally meant for vetinary purposes

Logically, I agree. It did come from an endocrinologist so I figure he knows what he's on about. Interesting times.

[cdef]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

... if it exists, it's probably some back street concoction brewed from something originally meant for veterinary purposes

The compound, which is naturally produced in tiny amounts in human muscle cells and has been studied for decades, is readily available through scientific supply companies. One company was offering AICAR for $120 a gram. At that price, giving a person the drug in the same concentration the mice got would cost thousands of dollars a day.

Evans predicted that in the wake of his study, published in the journal Cell, the drug would "fly off the shelves."

Super-expensive, yes, but to some it will be worth it. Competitive athletes want the immediate benefits, no matter what the long-term effects might be.

EDIT: I realize AICAR is not the same substance the OP is referring to, but developments in this field are happening fast.

[DigMe]

It's really a shame about all this. At one point I was so cynical about it I was thinking, "I'm just going to assume that all athletes are doping from now on." Then I decided that's just too cynical and not fair to the athletes who aren't. Maybe they are all doping, I don't know...but from now on I'm just going to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise..unless their name is Barry Bonds and their head has grown to 1.5 times its original size.

BTW, I've seen some compelling arguments outlining some non-drug reasons why all the pool records are being smashed. The pool is unlike any in the past - 3 meters deep instead of the normal 2, which cuts down on turbulence and wake, special ducts that help do the same as well as the specially-designed plastic buoys on the lane ropes. Add to that the new Speedo bathing suits that have been proven to cut time off of races and constantly evolving training methods, etc...

bc

[bmc]

My wife gave me a bit more detail and I'm hoping one of you may make sense of this. The doctor said it was a vector for a growth hormone. This was a technical term spoken in French o my wife. The vector stimulates a growth hormone but it is undetectable in doping tests.

[EricF]

Originally Posted by DigMe

BTW, I've seen some compelling arguments outlining some non-drug reasons why all the pool records are being smashed. The pool is unlike any in the past - 3 meters deep instead of the normal 2, which cuts down on turbulence and wake, special ducts that help do the same as well as the specially-designed plastic buoys on the lane ropes. Add to that the new Speedo bathing suits that have been proven to cut time off of races and constantly evolving training methods, etc...

bc

[derail thread]
As a competiton pool contractor, I'll touch on some of this...
The pool used for these Olympics isn't anything particularly special over what we build all over the state of California. They just paid attention to a few details that matter when building a "fast" pool. The perimeter gutter system does a good job of absorbing waves with zero wave recoil above the waterline - typical for any modern competition pool. Designs may vary slightly, but the result is the same. Frequently competition-specific pools use a 2-meter depth. Having a deeper pool is definitely going to reduce underwater reflections off the floor. The lane lines are nothing special, and aren't significantly different in design than they've been for decades. It is common to see 4" diameter lane lines in most pools. The Olympic pool is using 6" diameter lanes lines, which absorb waves better, but IIRC, these are the same as used in Athens in '04. I'm not up on swimwear technology, but it's easy to assume that these men and women are wearing anything that will make them faster in the water.

I am stunned at how much faster the swimmers are getting. Phelps is the only one to ever go under 1:44 for the 200 Free...and he went sub-1:43. He's more than a full second faster than ANYONE! In the 4x100 Free, 5 teams beat the previous WR. Freakin' nutty fast!
[/derail]

As a former bike racer and a fan of cycling, I certinaly am skeptical of "super-human" performances, but I also hate to jump to negative conclusions. I would agree that training techniques continue to improve and will make the biggest difference in an athlete's performance.

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by Rowdy Gaines

"It's by far the fastest pool in the world," says Rowdy Gaines, an Olympic medalist and swimming commentator for Olympic broadcaster NBC.

He's not a swimming pool designer but I think he'd have a good idea about these kinds of things as well. I don't know though...maybe he's just talking out his rear.

And here's a couple of articles on the new Speedo LZR swimsuit, which seems to have been worn by every single person that has broken a swimming record this year. These explain how a swimsuit can make you faster:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008...torch-lit.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008...-swimsuit.html

bc

[EricF]

Originally Posted by DigMe

He's not a swimming pool designer but I think he'd have a good idea about these kinds of things as well. I don't know though...maybe he's just talking out his rear.

Not at all. With so many new records being set, it is the fastest pool in the world. However, some of the specific things that were pointed out aren't major breakthroughs in current competition pool construction techniques. That's all I'm saying. Rowdy Gaines is a former swimmer, sure, but being a TV commentator, he's going to make things sound dramatic. The fact that it's a fast pool doesn't really have much effect on the fact that Phelps is a freak of nature. You can't make a pool fast for just one guy.

[bmc]

12,000 calories a day is the trick here. That's how you become the bionic man, right?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08132008...rge_124248.htm

Does anyone else find this guy just a teenie weenie bit unbelievable? Am I alone here?

[cdef]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/...e#contentSwap3

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...1n27genes.html

[L-A]

12,000 calories is out of the charts.

My guess, though, is that if you take out his coffees and 2000 cal. worth of energy drinks, his metabolism starts producing a good amount of fat.

This guy will have to be very careful once he's done with the intensive training.

[bmc]

Politically, it is important for certain countries to prove their superiority at these particular games. It's a convenient and very important battle field opportunity to prove top dog status in todays world. The lengths to which people will go to get their cannot be underestimated. Aside from enhancing drugs, take a good look at what some countries entered as 16 year olds. It raises my eyebrows.

I'm getting too jaded by all the revelations that have emerged in recent weeks and recent years to have faith or belief in what this global event is supposed to represent and celebrate. Too bad.

[L-A]

I love how in today's newspaper, a journalist wrote:

"Actually, Canadians are winning lots of gold medals right now. They're simply replaced by Chinese athletes during editing."

[cdef]

Originally Posted by bmc

Politically, it is important for certain countries to prove their superiority at these particular games. It's a convenient and very important battle field opportunity to prove top dog status in todays world. The lengths to which people will go to get their cannot be underestimated. Aside from enhancing drugs, take a good look at what some countries entered as 16 year olds. It raises my eyebrows.

I'm getting too jaded by all the revelations that have emerged in recent weeks and recent years to have faith or belief in what this global event is supposed to represent and celebrate. Too bad.

Even the little girl who sang at the opening ceremony was miming, as the Chinese have officially admitted. It was a question of the "optimal image for the country". They had this girl, Yang Peiyi, who could sing great, but was deemed not cute enough for worldwide TV. So, a simple substitution.

The public and the media expect/demand world records and spectacular wins, and the sponsoring corporations benefit, too. So I surmise that, for the sake of entertainment and profit, it's only a matter of a few years before the old humanist ideals of what sports is all about will be abandoned and replaced by the idea that scientific performance enhancement in the form of drugs shall not be objectionable after all. This will amount to an admission that testing protocols can't keep up with developing technologies like gene transfer. As such, the Olympic ideal of "winning is not the most important thing" has obviously been dysfunctional for a long time.

EDIT: As a point of comparison, it seems quaint to us now that Paavo Nurmi, the greatest long distance runner of his day, was barred from the 1932 Los Angeles Olympics for being "professional". Maybe we'll live to see controversies about androids and cyborgs participating?