Personal Dilemna. TBers, can you help?

**TRichardsbass** · #1 12-10-2011, 07:22 AM

I have a 20 year old step son who thinks he's older and smarter then anyone (I know, which kid doesn't) but can't see the truth even when it stands on his head. He decided to move in with his 22 year old girlfriend who lives with her mother and step father. Neither my step son nor his girlfriend do well in school nor do they have decent jobs. He moved there specifically because there are no rules for him to have to abide by. (A long story for another thread.) While she is pleasant, her father is in jail, her mother and frequent visitor aunt use drugs openly, and, well, lets just say it ain't the situation this kid should be in.

Cut to the chase, I have suspected for 3 years that his girlfriend's "sister" is really her daughter. I have a ton of coincidental evidence and experiences to tell me that. Based on her age at high school graduation, she graduated a year late. Pictures of her on Facebook over the years show her skinny, then plump in that pregnant way. She used to show a lot of skin, and now, won't reveal her stomach ever. She has oodles of pictures of her with her "little sister" that are more like mom and daughter shots. She even recently had a portrait done of her, my step son and "little sister". I watched her at Thanksgiving disciplining her little sister like a mother would, and her mother was right there. I also have experienced her mother calling at random times to complain about what her "little sister" was doing. Whose mom calls them to complain about their little sister not behaving in a store while they are in a store? This little sis, by the way, is 6 I think.

Her two closest female friends are single mothers, and both of them are from towns not close to here, nor would there be any natural way in my mind for them to meet, other then in a pregnant at 16 group.

My step son is far from the sharpest pencil. I know he is beginning to get serious, and I don't think he can see what I see. Because he is my step son he often refuses to even listen to my point of view, always ending it with "you're not my dad." So I've got the typical thing going here.

I would like to know if any of you out there know how to do a vital records search or a good way to chack this out. I would like to confirm my suspicions. At some point, should he decide he is going to marry her, if I am correct and little sis is really daughter, I am going to sit him down and have a talk about it. As much of a bananahead he is, he deserves to know the truth before making a committment.

Before any of you say "just ask her", she often lies, and will avoid any questions concerning her background. So, I have to try it a different way. And, if I can't confirm it, I'll just not say a word.

So, any help?

Joey3313 · #2 12-10-2011, 07:43 AM

Why is it necessary to know if the girlfriend is a mother? Is it really for his sake, or your own verification?

While I can appreciate your concern for him and understand it, is he not technically an adult?

I realize this wasn't helpful insofar as getting information, I'm just curious.

**Pacman** · #3 12-10-2011, 08:04 AM

In all seriousness, it sounds like your stepson is bound and determined to do things his way. At 20, I'd say it's time to let him.

**TRichardsbass** · #4 12-10-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey3313

Why is it necessary to know if the girlfriend is a mother? Is it really for his sake, or your own verification?

While I can appreciate your concern for him and understand it, is he not technically an adult?

I realize this wasn't helpful insofar as getting information, I'm just curious.

Of course its for my verification.

Yes, the kid is an adult, but there have been times in my life, and I'm sure in yours, where a friend or family member knew something but just kept their mouth shut, only to your detriment.

A couple of friends of mine knew my ex-wife was doing some things she shouldn't be, but just kept it to themselves. Since I travel and have travelled a ton doing this music stuff, I wasn't always around to see things. Had I known two years into my first marriage that she had been cheating, I would have divorced her then, not 16 years later. When I filed for divorce over a dozen friends told me they knew but didn't want to interfere.

Look, he's my step, not my son. He's also oblivious to things. I don't think its fair, if his girlfriend is hiding it, that the kid continues oblivious. If he knew and decided to stay so be it.

Jack Nicholson is famous for going through this. The woman he called mom was really his grandma. When he found out it really screwed him up for a long time. (I know a few relatives, as Jack is from Manasquan, NJ, where I grew up.)

It would be different if I could see that there wasn't anything serious going on. Also, the people he chooses to be around he believes are "wonderful". His girlfriend's mother actually hit on me two years ago when she knew I was engaged and she was living with her now husband. Lots of other "not so good" influences.

He, because I'm the step and because he is an "adult", (I use that very loosely) will only listen to me about anything when I have definitive proof.

I would have to ask, if you were a 20 year old "man", and you were getting very serious with someone, but they hid a secret as big as this one, wouldn't you want to know? Also, there are ramifications down the road that he at his age can't see. If it is her daughter, at some point it is the very real possibility that this kid could marry his girlfriend, and wind up having to take care of the little girl. I know he isn't thinking about that at all. And I know, based on my experiences with him, he probably couldn't handle it.

I also remember when I was an "adult." How many things do you look back at now and say "boy, I really didn't know crap then. Wish I had been more mature or known what I know now."

HaMMerHeD · #5 12-10-2011, 08:12 AM

Let him make his own mistakes. As a parent, I know it is difficult, but there are some lessons that must be learned, not taught. It sounds like you have done your best to enlighten him as to the way you see things, so let him take it from there.

**TRichardsbass** · #6 12-10-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

In all seriousness, it sounds like your stepson is bound and determined to do things his way. At 20, I'd say it's time to let him.

I agree, we were all that way. I don't care much what he does with his life, but do care that he makes the decisions in an environment where there are not big secrets. Its one thing to be stupid, its another to be deceived.

**TRichardsbass** · #7 12-10-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

Let him make his own mistakes. As a parent, I know it is difficult, but there are some lessons that must be learned, not taught. It sounds like you have done your best to enlighten him as to the way you see things, so let him take it from there.

Hey hammer, thanks and I agree. However, would you want your kids to be deceived in this way? Like I said, its one thing to be stupid. Its another to be deceived. I don't think I have learned too many lessons when I was lied to, only that people lie. You can't always learn how to spot the lie.

Stupidity interrupts your life. Deception can ruin it.

HaMMerHeD · #8 12-10-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Hey hammer, thanks and I agree. However, would you want your kids to be deceived in this way? Like I said, its one thing to be stupid. Its another to be deceived. I don't think I have learned too many lessons when I was lied to, only that people lie. You can't always learn how to spot the lie.

Stupidity interrupts your life. Deception can ruin it.

Absolutely, but whose life are you talking about here? Your stepson, or your stepson's girlfriend's "little sister"? If the former, you are right to be concerned, and you should make your opinions known, and make sure they are clearly understood. After that, if he still won't listen, it's on him. If the latter, it's not your problem. If you are determind to become involved there, I suggest you call CPS and let them know what you are concerned about. Beyond that, there isn't much you can do, and you aren't going to help anyone by making it your problem.

Learning that people lie is an important lesson, especially when family is concerned. True, you can't always learn to spot the lies, but knowing that people can, will, and do lie (especially family) can enable people to reserve trust and faith until it is appropriate to give it.

slaps76 · #9 12-10-2011, 08:25 AM

Isn't there a way to find the birth record or announcement, and wouldn't it show the mother?

i_got_a_mohawk · #10 12-10-2011, 08:39 AM

If the kid is a daughter, not a sister, it really doesn't have anything to do with you IMO. Maybe she tries to pass her as a sister because she knows people are judgemental about such things? Heck, maybe she's just a big sister who likes looking after her little sister.

In regards to the step son. He's 20. You can try and point him in the right path, but that's about it. Try and force anything and he's just going to rebel against what you suggest even harder.

We all make mistakes, making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn. You say he isn't a great learner, maybe this is a great way to get through to him. You say that neither of them do well at school, does that mean they are both in some form of post-high school education, if that's the case, surely it isn't all that bad?

MJ5150 · #11 12-10-2011, 08:41 AM

Leave it alone.

We all get lied to and deceived at one time or another. You can't be the hero here and protect your son forever. As a stepfather as well, I know the inner conflict/pain/struggle/heartache you feel right now. As long as no human life is in imminent risk, you just have to let go.

-Mike

sandmangeck · #12 12-10-2011, 08:45 AM

Is it his child?

**TRichardsbass** · #13 12-10-2011, 09:09 AM

Thanks everyone. Hammer, my desire is merely to put it out there and let him go with it. I'm not there to rescue anyone. Has nothing to do with the "little sister." I have always operated that way. I give you my thoughts, the basis for them, and then let you do what you want. At least then I know they made an informed decision.

Just to help here, I rarely see the boy, and I have no real nor close relationship with him. I don't try to rescue him, although I did bail him out of jail once, when he was 17, for tearing up a little league field with his jeep right in front of the police. Don't talk to him much, don't give him much advice. Let him make his own mistakes, which often he doesn't learn from but so be it.

In this case to me its a biggie, and if I'm right, its not correct for me to sit back and say nothing. Again, he has started to get very serious, and I can see a proposal in the near future.

Mikey and Sandy, its not his kid. He's only been with her going on three years and the "little sis" is 6. The "little sis" is a pure red head. The "mom", sister, everyone on the girls paternal and maternal side are all pure black haired kids. The "dad" is also one of the darkest haired guys on the planet. I've heard my step son say, "isn't it kinda weird, how "little sis" has red hair but no one else does? One thing he can't understand is that no one in that house or family is the actual father. Too young/stupid/naive to understand you can't grow oranges from an apple tree, if you know what I mean. He's also in love, which we all know can make you very blind to things right in front of you.

Everyone gets lied to. If you are lucky, the lies don't really effect you long term. Something like this, if I'm right, however, isn't a little white lie.

I could care less if his girlfriend doesn't want to be judged. Assuming I'm correct, She got pregnant young, and kept the kid. If she is the kind of person who cannot face up to her decisions and the consequences, that will never bode well for anyone in a relationship with her.

As for them both being in community college, she is only going because grandpa told her while she is in school he will pay her car payment (a conversation I overheard at Thanksgiving between her grandpa and her while we were watching the football game) and he is only going because he gets emancipated by his parents the day he is out of school (a brief conversation he has had directly with me.) I encourage him to study and get good grades, as it can only benefit him in the future, but he has ignored it for the most part. He also signed up for five classes this semester, his father paid for them, he withdrew from two immediately without telling dad and he kept the refunded tuition money and blew it on a trip to FL. I had a conversation about that with him after he told his mother to shut up and stay out of it.

Honestly, yes, I should just let it go here. I still, though, just want to confirm what I believe to be true, or to know I'm completely wrong.

HaMMerHeD · #14 12-10-2011, 09:18 AM

It sounds to me like the girlfriend is the mom, and if that is your biggest concern, I think you should bring it up to him and tell him your suspicion. Don't make accusations or say anything in a bold declaration. Just tell him that you think it possible that "little sister" is his girlfriend's daughter. They drop the subject, unless he wants to keep talking about it. Plant the seed and move on.

smeet · #15 12-10-2011, 09:25 AM

I agree. If you do a thorough legal investigation and he finds out about it, that may do more damage because you would be perceived as meddling. Just let him know your thoughts as casually and succinctly as possible. If he hears it, great. If not, he wouldn't hear it no matter how you said it or what proof you had.

Unrepresented · #16 12-10-2011, 09:50 AM

Here's the reality:

The more he perceives you meddling, the more he's going to resent you, and he'll be driven towards his lady friend.

The more he discovers her shortcomings, the more he'll resent her, and he'll be driven back to his other comforters (presumably family).

He needs to discover her shortcomings without perceiving that you're the one feeding them to him. I can't tell you whether that's through leading questions on your part, or through letting him live her lifestyle for a few weeks/months or something inbetween.

MakiSupaStar · #17 12-10-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

In all seriousness, it sounds like your stepson is bound and determined to do things his way. At 20, I'd say it's time to let him.

This. I think he needs to learn a few things on his own. Just love him and support him and give him advice, but ultimately he's going to make his own decisions about this. You've already planted the suspicions in his head regarding this chicks daughter/sister. He'll find it out soon enough. There's no reason to waste energy on a 'see I told you so' point. It's tough to watch someone you love make the wrong choices but ultimately that's life right?

Recently my niece made some bad decisions. She my wife's sister's daughter and my wife and her side of the family are all Japanese. She's 21 and just had her first child 5 months ago. She married the father. She's always over at her parents house and depends on them to take care of her son. She's rarely at home with her husband which makes us think there's something wrong there. Point is, the writing was on the wall with her. She was bound and determined not to go to college, to sleep around and started spending the night with her boyfriends at a very young age, despite her parents protests. Her father worries about her all the time. Now they just love her, and support her, but they've definitely drawn a line on what's her role as a wife/mother and her role as a daughter and their subsequent obligations to those roles. It doesn't matter what the culture is, people are going to head down the paths they choose whether you like it or not. Just step back and love him dad. There comes a time to let go.

aborgman · #18 12-10-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

I have a 20 year old step son who thinks he's older and smarter then anyone (I know, which kid doesn't) but can't see the truth even when it stands on his head. He decided to move in with his 22 year old girlfriend who lives with her mother and step father. Neither my step son nor his girlfriend do well in school nor do they have decent jobs. He moved there specifically because there are no rules for him to have to abide by. (A long story for another thread.) While she is pleasant, her father is in jail, her mother and frequent visitor aunt use drugs openly, and, well, lets just say it ain't the situation this kid should be in.
So, any help?

Yeah, here is the help:

There is no "kid" in this situation.

The sooner you realize this, and the sooner you realize that some folks are good at learning from others mistakes and some folks need to make their own - the sooner this ADULT will be able to get on with learning lifes tough lessons.

All you can do is give your best advice to another adult and let the chips fall where they may.

**TRichardsbass** · #19 12-10-2011, 10:01 AM

Thanks to all of you. I will lurk the link for a while.

I just need to find the appropriate time and way to explain to him my concerns and my suspicions. Like a good song, that takes time...

**TRichardsbass** · #20 12-10-2011, 10:03 AM

I will add, though that kid or adult, sometimes others silence or non-action is worse then action.

A lesson that is always pondered. Funny, we are learning that lesson seemingly now with the Jerry Sandusky case. All those people just kept their mouths shut. Not going to jail, but in the long run it was worse then them not saying anything.