Photography guru's, I need your help again...

[Tony G]

Hey photo guru's, I could really use your help again. Your advice has given me hundreds of great pictures of my now 6 month old son. However, a new challenge has arisen. My family has been so impressed with the pictures I've been taking that they asked me to take a full family portrait for Christmas, 14 people in all. As a reminder of what equipment I have, Rebel Xti with kit lens, and EF 50mm/1.8, and a tripod. I know, not much but it has gotten the job done to this point.

I assume my family would prefer to take the picture indoors, as it is pretty cold here these days. We've picked a room that has some very large windows that lets a lot of light in, but I'm not sure that it is going to be enough with the small amount of equipment I have. Any suggestions on fitting 14 people into a frame for a reasonably decent photo with the gear I have? Any suggestions on something that would make the job easier?

[Tony G]

No photo experts on today?

[fenderhutz]

Look for your manual settings and try to compensate with an emulated film speed. Like using 800 or 1600 speed film and doing some test shots. Also setting the camera in landscape mode so everyone is in focus as portrait will focus on a particular area.

I am not a complete guru but I hold my own.

[BetterBottomEnd]

This would be a great time to pickup a tripod.

[fenderhutz]

Originally Posted by BetterBottomEnd

This would be a great time to pickup a tripod.

+1

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by BetterBottomEnd

This would be a great time to pickup a tripod.

I've got one. Sorry, I should have mentioned it.

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Look for your manual settings and try to compensate with an emulated film speed. Like using 800 or 1600 speed film and doing some test shots. Also setting the camera in landscape mode so everyone is in focus as portrait will focus on a particular area.

I am not a complete guru but I hold my own.

Not a bad idea.

[BetterBottomEnd]

Set up your tripod and experiment. You shouldn't have too much problem getting everyone in frame if you have enough space. Biggest issue will probably be lighting and without spending lots of money there's not much you can do about that other play around with your camera and lens. Do you know F stop, ISO, and exposure time?

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by BetterBottomEnd

Set up your tripod and experiment. You shouldn't have too much problem getting everyone in frame if you have enough space. Biggest issue will probably be lighting and without spending lots of money there's not much you can do about that other play around with your camera and lens. Do you know F stop, ISO, and exposure time?

Yup, I'm familar with those settings, and have been experimenting a quite a bit with them since I've gotten the camera. I've gotten some decent results. Nothing super amazing, but decent. My only concern is getting such a large group of people in focus. Which of my two lenses should I use?

[Chunk-O-Funk]

What lenses came with your camera?


I've never done a group shop, but I would think with any style portrait the lighting is most important. Like mentioned above the equipment is expensive. However, I have heard of people using makeshift diffusers on regular lamps. It's worth a google if anything.

I think one problem you may encounter with light coming through a window would be shadows. If anything you could use a lamp to compensate for that. I have also read that if you have a decent external flash mounted to your camera it can be used by pointing it at a wall or ceiling and bouncing the light off that surface and onto your subject.

Found this:
http://digital-photography-school.co...-group-photos/

It seems to have some good advise.
Multiple shots, different positions, etc.



Good luck!

[Tony G]

Thanks chunk.

[Kelly Lee]

As an amatuer myself, I have found a few cheap tricks that have worked for me.

For a cheap lighting fix I have used white bedsheets hung on each side of the group (out of picture) and put 150 watt incadescent full spectrum bulbs far enough behind them to act as a large diffusor. I know that is more work than most want to do but it hass produced great results for me. Try it along with/without bounce flash depending on how strong the light from the windows is coming through. Also, try to make it a time during the day that the sun is not actually shining through the windows. Here is a crudely made graphic showing what I'm talking about as it is hard to convey ideas sometimes.

[crispygoat]

whatever you do, do not use ISO 1600 always stay within 100 - 800. 1600 will put too much noise in your picture.

[hbarcat]

Your primary concern is proper lighting and if you can't control the light situation, you will very likely end up with less than good looking pictures.

The basics: There are two possible sources of light you can use for a larger group portrait such as this: natural and artificial. Or a combination of the two. What you will end up using will depend on how much natural light you will have to work with and whether or not you can supplement this with flash/floodlight equipment.

1) Natural light - If you have a room that lets in lots of natural light then this can potentially provide you with an ideal lighting situation. That would be the group standing against a wall or neutral background with lots of diffuse light coming in from all directions and illuminating the group face on. You would want it to be middle of the day and ideally somewhat cloudy. You can probably control the time of day you take pictures but you can't control the weather so if you have lots of direct sunlight this will make the situation more difficult but you should still be able to take excellent pictures.

2) Artificial light - You didn't mention a separate piece of flash equipment so I will assume that you only have the tiny flash built into the camera. This will definitely not be adequate to be your main source of illumination, so unless you plan on investing in a speedlight or genuine photofloods, you will need to use natural light from outside and perhaps supplement this with the built in flash as a "fill flash". Do not try to use lamps or other typical indoor lighting as your main source of light - this is just asking for trouble such as uneven illumination, strange color shifts and odd or harsh contrast that will make your pictures look amateurish.


Gameplan: Do the shoot during the day when there is sufficient sunlight. Pose the group against an interior background so that the ambient light is illuminating them directly and from multiple directions. If it's cloudy, this is perfect lighting conditions because the light will be diffuse. If it's sunny this is still okay but you MUST make sure that the sun is not shining directly into their faces or this will make a harsh glare (and also everyone will be squinting). Draw curtains or put up white bedsheets on the windows so that you diffuse the light to prevent shadows and too much contrast in the image. Make sure you do not use any colored material for diffusion (no colored curtains - only white or light gray) or the entire image will turn the same color. Override the default flash setting and use the built in flash as a "fill flash" for some pictures and turn the flash off for more pictures. Take many pictures (digital "film" is free) because with a group of about 40 people, you can count on most of your shots having someone closing their eyes, smirking, looking away, frowning, laughing or otherwise doing something weird and un-photogenic.


You might want to check out the Canon digital photography forum. Here's a thread on taking group photos:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...ad.php?t=51625

General photography forum:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/


Good luck.

[Tony G]

Wow, thanks so much hbarcat!

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by hbarcat

Your primary concern is proper lighting and if you can't control the light situation, you will very likely end up with less than good looking pictures.

The basics: There are two possible sources of light you can use for a larger group portrait such as this: natural and artificial. Or a combination of the two. What you will end up using will depend on how much natural light you will have to work with and whether or not you can supplement this with flash/floodlight equipment.

1) Natural light - If you have a room that lets in lots of natural light then this can potentially provide you with an ideal lighting situation. That would be the group standing against a wall or neutral background with lots of diffuse light coming in from all directions and illuminating the group face on. You would want it to be middle of the day and ideally somewhat cloudy. You can probably control the time of day you take pictures but you can't control the weather so if you have lots of direct sunlight this will make the situation more difficult but you should still be able to take excellent pictures.

2) Artificial light - You didn't mention a separate piece of flash equipment so I will assume that you only have the tiny flash built into the camera. This will definitely not be adequate to be your main source of illumination, so unless you plan on investing in a speedlight or genuine photofloods, you will need to use natural light from outside and perhaps supplement this with the built in flash as a "fill flash". Do not try to use lamps or other typical indoor lighting as your main source of light - this is just asking for trouble such as uneven illumination, strange color shifts and odd or harsh contrast that will make your pictures look amateurish.


Gameplan: Do the shoot during the day when there is sufficient sunlight. Pose the group against an interior background so that the ambient light is illuminating them directly and from multiple directions. If it's cloudy, this is perfect lighting conditions because the light will be diffuse. If it's sunny this is still okay but you MUST make sure that the sun is not shining directly into their faces or this will make a harsh glare (and also everyone will be squinting). Draw curtains or put up white bedsheets on the windows so that you diffuse the light to prevent shadows and too much contrast in the image. Make sure you do not use any colored material for diffusion (no colored curtains - only white or light gray) or the entire image will turn the same color. Override the default flash setting and use the built in flash as a "fill flash" for some pictures and turn the flash off for more pictures. Take many pictures (digital "film" is free) because with a group of about 40 people, you can count on most of your shots having someone closing their eyes, smirking, looking away, frowning, laughing or otherwise doing something weird and un-photogenic.


You might want to check out the Canon digital photography forum. Here's a thread on taking group photos:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...ad.php?t=51625

General photography forum:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/


Good luck.

Everything hbarcat said. Kudos.

If it is a bright day try a sheer across the window to diffuse the light. Beware of shadows.

Think about a soft focus filter as well.

Experiment and be aware that a room full of people with have slightly different lighting conditions than an empty room.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by crispygoat

whatever you do, do not use ISO 1600 always stay within 100 - 800. 1600 will put too much noise in your picture.

If your picture is going to be enlarged significantly, I'd stay at ISO 400. There are some really good 400 speed films out there, and that will give you 4 stops over 100.

[hbarcat]

All right, now I have a question. I still shoot film especially for weddings and other professional type work. I know that your camera ( Rebel Xti) is a 10.1 MP digital camera but that won't change much with regard to lighting and shooting technique. But how does the "emulated film speed" change things? Digital imaging has no actual film grain, of course, but there must be some penalty for using virtual high film speed settings. Does this introduce artifacts or otherwise cost image quality?

[BetterBottomEnd]

I'll echo pretty much everything that's been said already. If you want to use artificial lighting go big or go home for the reasons already mentioned. I don't know your camera well enough to say for sure but I definitely wouldn't go above ISO 800 if you can get a good shot at 400 stay there especially if you're planning on blowing it up. I can't tell you which lens to use because I don't know what the kit lens is. Simply because its a fixed lens I would guess the 50mm is better glass but I really have no idea. Use whatever you have to to get everyone in the shot.

Digital "film" is free so just keep shooting until you get it right.

Shooting at higher ISO's with digital can add "noise" to your shot depending on the camera. If it showed up in your shots you would call it film grain. It is in my understanding electronic noise affecting the image sensor.

[ehque]

a 50mm 1.4 should be able to do fine. If you can get everyone to stay still, 50mm 1.8 fully open might get enough light and look clear enough on a tripod, but watch for the depth of field.