Pit Bulls. Great dogs or cold-blooded killers?

[bassinplace]

I've got two Am Staffs at home. Both great dogs. One of them is now old and decrepit, but still very happy to be alive. The other one is very sweet, loving and affectionate. I will say she does have very powerful jaws, though. Very powerful. She chews on rocks just because she likes to. She actually breaks them with her jaws. She will instantly befriend anyone we invite into our house and attempt to get all the affection she can. If someone were breaking in however she could and would do some serious damage. I'm not at all exaggerating when I say I wouldn't be surprised if she could sever a limb or an appendage. One of the sweetest, smartest dogs I've ever known though and I've had a few.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Darth Handsome

I think that picture is supposed to portray that dog as all sweet & cute & that, but when I look at its eyes I nonetheless get the feeling that if the mood strikes it, it will be inclined to sink its teeth in my face.

I don't trust them, no matter how many feel good stories I hear.

Same here. Same with all guarding breeds. The difference is their tendency for action in place of growling at an imaginary line in the sand. Where a less aggressive animal might bark from his porch a Pitt will go you.

All serious dog attacks on kids make the news here. Pitt and Pitt crosses figure heavily by my estimation.

Breeding them back into docile big terriers is a pipe dream.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Primakurtz

I know one thing for sure: cross a pit bull with a chihuahua, and you get one awesomely cool little dog!

My little buddy Frank:

whaaaaa.....how the hell.....I....woah...how did....nevermind. Frank rocks.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Same here. Same with all guarding breeds. The difference is their tendency for action in place of growling at an imaginary line in the sand. Where a less aggressive animal might bark from his porch a Pitt will go you.

All serious dog attacks on kids make the news here. Pitt and Pitt crosses figure heavily by my estimation.

Breeding them back into docile big terriers is a pipe dream.

yes, apparently mine's killed my kids, my cat, my other dog, our turtles my kid's friends, my wife and myself, our friends and relatives several times over now...


but, yes absolutely there IS a problem with the breed and about 90% is owner-related. And - I never said that anyone desires to breed them into "big docile terriers", that's not the point. Some of the very traits that led them to be used in dog-fighting (lack of human aggression for instance) are what makes them good pets IF they're properly trained and socialized. Breeding back some of the other good traits would help immeasurably IMO. Back to the one thing I mentioned early on that some folks cant believe - there are Pit therapy dogs, service dogs, and rescue dogs. If the Pit was an absolutely unstable and untrainable/vicious breed, how is this so?

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Primakurtz

I know one thing for sure: cross a pit bull with a chihuahua, and you get one awesomely cool little dog!

My little buddy Frank:

Chihuahuas can be very aggressive bizarrely, bred to raise hell at any intrusion, familiar or otherwise in the emperor's bed chamber. Frank's offspring of another Pitt could be some serious loose cannons.

[Relic]

Here ya go, I'd like to share this with you guys. here's my youngest son with his constant companion. This was taken as hurricane Sandy was hitting us. Through that whole storm she did not leave his side for a moment. Despite what many of you guys think about them, there ARE good Pits. trust me on that one.

[Ziltoid]

Perhaps the problem is simply some kind of vicious circle, the image of pit bulls as badass, aggressive dogs attracts the wrong kind of owners who turn them into those "bad" dogs reinforcing the stereotyped image and so on.

While good owner who train their dog properly and treat them well are victim of that image.

Or in short: Stupid dressers = crappy dogs. That just seems like common sense to me.

[Relic]

^I honestly think that that is a huge part of it all, I really do.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by Relic

^I honestly think that that is a huge part of it all, I really do.

Totally. Most (I said most, not all) Pit owners around here are less than desirables.

[FreakyStyley69]

Pit bulls eventually kill everyone who comes in contact with them. It's only a matter of time.

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

The Pit
Probably the sweetest, most obedient dog I've ever known of. He responds to hand signals and won't go through a door way without permission.

This is the one you have to worry about Haha

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Eric Perry

Totally. Most (I said most, not all) Pit owners around here are less than desirables.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Relic

yes, apparently mine's killed my kids, my cat, my other dog, our turtles my kid's friends, my wife and myself, our friends and relatives several times over now...


but, yes absolutely there IS a problem with the breed and about 90% is owner-related. And - I never said that anyone desires to breed them into "big docile terriers", that's not the point. Some of the very traits that led them to be used in dog-fighting (lack of human aggression for instance) are what makes them good pets IF they're properly trained and socialized. Breeding back some of the other good traits would help immeasurably IMO. Back to the one thing I mentioned early on that some folks cant believe - there are Pit therapy dogs, service dogs, and rescue dogs. If the Pit was an absolutely unstable and untrainable/vicious breed, how is this so?

German Shepherds are used in service roles too. Take both into a "lone dog" situation I know which I'd rather have growling at me.

The "owner problem" argument holds no water either. If the bad owners had chihuahuas there wouldn't be a problem with kids' being mauled.

At least attack dogs don't qualify as "arms".

[Relic]

Originally Posted by FreakyStyley69

Pit bulls eventually kill everyone who comes in contact with them. It's only a matter of time.

Crap!! That means Fiona Apple's dog is going to have to really hurry it the hell up..


(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-tour-her.html)

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

The "owner problem" argument holds no water either. If the bad owners had chihuahuas there wouldn't be a problem with kids' being mauled.

I'd have to disagree with that.
My neighbor's weiner dog has bit a kid.
My girlfriend's poodle, has biten 2 people
The Akita across the street (always growling and showing teeth) has come in to my yard when I was unloading my truck. A trenching shovel is a good thing to own, that could have been a lot worse

On the other hand, I make sure my fence is structurally sound. I keep them on leases when I take them out, and I make sure they interact with other dogs and kids when they are young.
Neither of my dogs has bitten a person.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

German Shepherds are used in service roles too. Take both into a "lone dog" situation I know which I'd rather have growling at me.

The "owner problem" argument holds no water either. If the bad owners had chihuahuas there wouldn't be a problem with kids' being mauled.

At least attack dogs don't qualify as "arms".

Even though a Shepard actually has a stronger bite?

Here, pulled this from another site:

bite forces from Nat Geo study:
Pitbull pressure bite was 238 lbs
German Shepherd bite was 240 lbs
Wild Dogs bite force was 317 lbs
Rottweiler bite force was 328 lbs
Lion bite force was very close to 700 lbs
Hyena's bite force was 1000 lbs
Snapping Turtle bite force was 1004 lbs
Nile Crocodile bite force was 2500 lbs

And you're statement about owners is totally and completely flawed, sorry. If a bad owner had a chihuahua, one might get nipped. If a bad owner has a pit, one may get mauled. Both dogs can bite if they're poorly trained and poorly socialized, it's up to the owner to a) train them, b) don't allow a situation where a dog may bite. A bad owner will likely do neither. So you're telling me that a bad owner with any dog other than a pit has no responsibility to a or b?
I'm a pit owner and she's never bit, growled or even came remotely close to any viciousness. How do you explain that? "luck?"
When I got her, I made it a point to learn more about the breed, talk to other (responsible) owners as well as trainers. The overwhelming consensus is that they're great dogs with proper care. If that were crap then we'd have a lot of dead and mauled owners, euthanized dogs, out-of-business trainers and death and mayhem abounding wouldn't we? Back to square 1 - bad pits are most often the result of bad owners.

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by Lowactnsatsfctn

The Pit
Probably the sweetest, most obedient dog I've ever known of. He responds to hand signals and won't go through a door way without permission.

This is the one you have to worry about Haha

I always train my dogs to obey hand signals. Also to wait for the family to go through a doorway first unless we tell him or signal him to go in.

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

German Shepherds are used in service roles too. Take both into a "lone dog" situation I know which I'd rather have growling at me.

The "owner problem" argument holds no water either. If the bad owners had chihuahuas there wouldn't be a problem with kids' being mauled.

At least attack dogs don't qualify as "arms".

Sooooo not true. Chihuahuas are among the most frequent biters. They just don't do as much damage as a Pit or a German Sheperd bite. Chihuahuas are discouraged for families with small children because they compete for attention and get REALLY nasty about it.

[Downunderwonder]

Nipping and having your face chewed off is the same thing? Get real guys.

Number of kids hospitalised from septicemia from chihuahua bites- few
Number of kids maimed for life by pittbull bites- many

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. Few cause the damage that a pittbull does when it decides to go you. Add that to their in-bred propensity to go you and this is why many would like to exercise eugenics on the breed.

In Auckland NZ impounded Pitts and crosses are inelligble for adoption and get put down if the deadbeat owners don't stump up the registration and pound fees. Tough for that dog and unnecessary but that's how it goes.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Relic

And you're statement about owners is totally and completely flawed, sorry. If a bad owner had a chihuahua, one might get nipped. If a bad owner has a pit, one may get mauled. Both dogs can bite if they're poorly trained and poorly socialized, it's up to the owner to a) train them, b) don't allow a situation where a dog may bite. A bad owner will likely do neither. So you're telling me that a bad owner with any dog other than a pit has no responsibility to a or b?
I'm a pit owner and she's never bit, growled or even came remotely close to any viciousness. How do you explain that? "luck?"
When I got her, I made it a point to learn more about the breed, talk to other (responsible) owners as well as trainers. The overwhelming consensus is that they're great dogs with proper care. If that were crap then we'd have a lot of dead and mauled owners, euthanized dogs, out-of-business trainers and death and mayhem abounding wouldn't we? Back to square 1 - bad pits are most often the result of bad owners.

You're attributing claims to me that I never made.

I have never denied responsible owners can have a Pittbull as a pet or working dog, control it and keep the public safe from it.

I never suggested non Pitt owners have carte blanche for their dogs to riot. The chihuahua point was the dogs do the damage not the owners.

Square one to me is the breed is flawed by its tenacious fighting tendancies and no amount of good dogs and owners changes that. You've admitted they need special care yourself.

What's so wrong with ceasing to breed Pitts? I'm sure yours is lovely but if he was neutered and you had to eventually replace him with another breed would you be any worse off?

BTW, Pitt owners and their relatives are routinely mauled in NZ. And sadly many more wandering and nuisance unregistered Pitts are euthanised.