Pit Bulls. Great dogs or cold-blooded killers?

[sloasdaylight]

I feel compelled to point out that under New Zealand law, importation of the APBT, and other "Pit bull type dogs" has been outlawed since 1996, so chances are pretty good that the dogs you're encountering down there have a much higher percentage of interbreeding than over here.

[Downunderwonder]

You're telling me 2 and 3 aren't one trigger off charging whatever they have focused on?

[Ziltoid]

It doesn't look like it, but he's totally about to kill a thousand humans.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

You're telling me 2 and 3 aren't one trigger off charging whatever they have focused on?

Yes. They're in a pointing type stance, which is similar to their aroused, or attentive stance, and the stance most dogs are in when they're shown.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+...w=1680&bih=963

If you don't know a lot about dog body language or whatever fine, but don't go around calling for an entire breed to be slowly bred to extinction because you're ignorant of it.

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

....

See how wee pit's ears say "high alert"? That look maintained by a dog after you've been introduced says to me "watch it bud, I got you covered". Maybe I'm wrong but it has been SOP for pits in my experience.

Dogs communicate to one another by ears and tail. That's why cropped ears and tails became popular among fighting dogs. Without complete movement of ears and tails, dogs can't communicate "I'd rather play than fight", or "please leave me alone, I'm not a threat to you". This heightens the likelihood that one dog will attack the other. Makes the fights more "interesting".

So if you look at a dog with cropped ears and you are not sure if he wants to be petted or if he wants to rip your throat out, imagine what other dogs think when they see him.

[DethByDoom]

Wow. There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Amazing how this breeds gone from the most popular dog into the country to the most demonized.

During the height of the little rascals "spot" made the country fall in love with APBTs. They were the most owned breed in America.

Roosevelt kept several in the White House.

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Ziltoid

It doesn't look like it, but he's totally about to kill a thousand humans.

Lol.. What a beautiful dog!

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Ziltoid

That's what I expect a socialised dog to do after an introduction, chillax.



Fellas, I've been around big dogs all my life, I read dog fine. I can tell the difference between attentive and alert, don't be so condescending. 2 is on alert. The pointing 3 is on the move or itching to be on the move but under control. Take an owner out of the picture and I'm gonna be nervous with that amount of attention focused on me.

Attentive doesn't phase me. I don't make sudden moves or attempt to establish a relationship with anything on alert. I've never been attacked but I'd be stupid not to be wary of a dangerous dog alert on me.

What's so threatening about the opposite viewpoint on a thread asking the question directly? OP is respectful but the rest of you treat it as an opportunity to abuse me or use false assumptions to paint me a dog fearing pit hating ignoramus.

Where did the "pit" come from in the name "pitbull"?

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by sloasdaylight

Yes. They're in a pointing type stance, which is similar to their aroused, or attentive stance, and the stance most dogs are in when they're shown.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+...w=1680&bih=963

If you don't know a lot about dog body language or whatever fine, but don't go around calling for an entire breed to be slowly bred to extinction because you're ignorant of it.

before this was edited while I was doing my typing snatches there were pictures of relatively harmless dogs being attentive. Very different.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

That's what I expect a socialised dog to do after an introduction, chillax.



Fellas, I've been around big dogs all my life, I read dog fine. I can tell the difference between attentive and alert, don't be so condescending. 2 is on alert. The pointing 3 is on the move or itching to be on the move but under control. Take an owner out of the picture and I'm gonna be nervous with that amount of attention focused on me.

Attentive doesn't phase me. I don't make sudden moves or attempt to establish a relationship with anything on alert. I've never been attacked but I'd be stupid not to be wary of a dangerous dog alert on me.

What's so threatening about the opposite viewpoint on a thread asking the question directly? OP is respectful but the rest of you treat it as an opportunity to abuse me or use false assumptions to paint me a dog fearing pit hating ignoramus.

Where did the "pit" come from in the name "pitbull"?

Sorry, you just come off that way when you make comments like this:

What's so wrong with ceasing to breed Pitts? I'm sure yours is lovely but if he was neutered and you had to eventually replace him with another breed would you be any worse off?

The "owner problem" argument holds no water either.

To me a pitbull is a big terrier made to go in a fight pit and kill other dogs.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

before this was edited while I was doing my typing snatches there were pictures of relatively harmless dogs being attentive. Very different.

Wire fox terrier in it's show pose. Almost EXACTLY identical, except it's longer tail is held higher. Only difference is the size and shape of the animal, and that it's got longer fur and a less well defined musculature.


Rottweiler

http://www.akc.org/breeds/complete_breed_list.cfm

Go through that page and you'll see pretty much every working dog with nearly the exact same pose.

[Downunderwonder]

Those are all unthreatening expressions of opinion which were sought by the OP. Nobody has answers to my questions. Nobody has an alternative explanation for my assertion a pit dog is named for its purpose being to fight in a pit.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Those are all unthreatening expressions of opinion which were sought by the OP. Nobody has answers to my questions. Nobody has an alternative explanation for my assertion a pit dog is named for its purpose being to fight in a pit.

Did anyone say you were wrong about that? Pits were bred originally to bait bulls and bears. After that practice ended, they were used in ratting, and then to fight each other. No one is arguing the past of the dog, just whether or not the breed is a good family pet, which it demonstrably is when it's raised and socialized properly, just like every other breed.

[Downunderwonder]

The club text makes no mention of the fighting purpose.

You may make no distinction between an animal bred to herd or protect cattle and one bred to fight for "sport" but I do.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Relic

On one hand, if you follow the media, you'll see story after story about pit bulls savagely attacking innocent joggers, unprovoked attacks on kids, other dogs and animals. They're certainly painted as some of the most vicious creatures around. You wonder why the hell would anyone would want a pet that could potentially tear your face off and kill your family??
Yet, on the other hand you have Steve Irwin's (RIP) dog Sui who was a staffordshire terrier, you have Cesar Millan's (Dog Whisperer) dogs "Daddy" and later "Junior", both pits, you have the two pits that worked tirelessly as rescue dogs at the WTC after 911, you have "Sgt Stumpy" one of the most decorated war canines in military history, you have "Petey" from the Little Rascals who was a pit...

I recently adopted my brother's pit bull a few months ago (he had to move to a place where dogs weren't allowed) and I've honestly NEVER owned another dog that was so attentive, obedient and affectionate. When I first took her on, I was a little apprehensive but after the first few weeks, my mind was blown. Here's a dog that has gone into my son's room and walked out with a stuffed animal for him when he was crying about something, a dog that will let me take a bone out of her mouth at will, a dog that comes running into our room at night when she hears my wife coughing when she had a cold as if to say "are you ok!?? Hardly the schizophrenic killer the media makes them out to be. They're just dogs that need firm training, exercise, attention and affection and they're among the best dogs you can own by far.

So how about you guys - any fellow pit owners out there? Or how about haters - why do you hate them and do you believe the media hype?

Asked and answered. But I don't hate Pitbulls. I believe society as a whole would be better off if the fighting genes were removed in a generation with no harm to any Pitbull or loss to their owners. Slim chance of that happening.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Asked and answered. But I don't hate Pitbulls. I believe society as a whole would be better off if the fighting genes were removed in a generation with no harm to any Pitbull or loss to their owners. Slim chance of that happening.

I'll be honest, the reason that I'm pushing back so much on what you're saying is not so much to "win" an argument or whatever, you feel the way you feel and that's fine. My issue is that IMO too many folks believe things the way you do and if it were a simple matter of opinions, it'd be no big deal -but- this sort of thinking is leading to some every unfair and despicable practices. (esp breed specific legislation)
In Ireland a family dog was recently seized and euthanized because it simply looked like a pit bull...looked..
never mind that it never showed any signs of aggression, never mind that the family had had it for years, it simply looked like a pit and so was killed. Here in the US in Illinois a disabled man's service dog was taken because it was a pit. Now this was a trained, certified SERVICE dog. This dog passed tests, passed extensive training, and was taken..... (he did later get it back after quite a battle) These were two publicized things but in reality, every shelter euthanizes thousands every year just because no "normal family" wants them. How sad, being that they are NOT the monsters they're made out to be. I know this based on experience. The trainer I consulted with knows this, the pit club I consult with knows this.

Look at it this way - people who know dogs bred these many years ago to fulfill a role. They knew how the dog would behave they knew how they would react and interact. They bred them that way right? So here you go 200 years or so later and you have people -trainers, breeders, owners, who know dogs, maintain that they're NOT monsters.
Who says they are? The media. The same media who....well...you know...never sensationalizes, never demonizes, never manufactures outrage for their own gain...nope. never.. they always tell the absolute, complete and comprehensive truth.. /sarcasm

[RadioactiveGuy4]

I work at an emergency Veterinary clinic and have run an animal shelter in the past. I have seen my share of really awesome dogs and some dogs who should be put down (I know it sounds harsh) because they were a danger to others. There really is no breed that I would say is worse than others. I will say that 90% of the time dogs that have issues have owners who a) are @$$holes who have taught their dogs to act as they do b) ignorant owners who feel that their dog is the most well trained animal on the planet and can do no wrong or c) Lazy owners who have not taken the time to train/socialize their dog so it is out of control. All these things are faults of people not of the animal.

IME 95% of dogs can be great house pets if given the proper training/socialization. Some need more than others. Some breeds need different types of training as well such as herding breeds who will herd you, your kids, and the cat if not trained that its not ok to do that. it just take a cool head and time.

The other 4.75% are dogs with such a high energy level that they need a job. These are great dogs but because of the level of energy they have they make poor house pets. These dogs end up being search and rescue dogs and during my time at the shelter I ran into a few of these dogs and I was able to get them into search and rescue programs where they thrived.

That leaves another 0.25% that are truly dangerous dogs. They for whatever reason are too fearful, under socialized, or aggressive. I do not think these dogs should be put down but it takes a very special person who can work with a dog like this. Some who knows the limitation of the dog and who can keep them out of situations where they will become a danger. The sad thing is that these type of people are very few in number and while working at the shelter I met some and was able to save the lives of some dogs who would have been put down but not all of them. A shelter is a terrible place for a dog and it can bring out the worst in them. I have had to make the choice to end the lives of dogs that if that special owner was found could have lived. The sad story is that those owners/adopters could not be found and the dogs regressed to the point where they became a danger to staff and the other dogs.

The point I'm trying to make is this. A bad person is almost always the cause of a bad dog. Also, spay and neuter your pets, friends, and weird relatives.

Rant over

[machine gewehr]

First of all, I have dog phobia. I used to lock down if a dog approached me unless it's a puppy. I am known to push my girlfriend towards a dog just to get away from it. I wasn't a proud man.


My friend who is an animal lover rescued two dogs. One of them is a kind of a hunting dog the other is a pitbull. When she rescued the pitbull had scars all over and was in a bad shape. He's a smaller frame pitbull that was used as the practice dog for the bigger pitbulls. Luckily he survived and has a loving home now.

However, when a big truck passes by he pisses himself. He is so loving that I sat with him and petted him for hours. He is a giant bag of muscled love. He loves to love people despite what has been done to him.

The only thing he couldn't shake is, if you are standing and lean on to him he starts growling and backs away. Those ******* used to beat him in that position.

First time I saw him, I almost locked down. An hour later I was the only one who would love the **** out of him in the group. I know my friend takes such good care of him, I am not afraid of him going nuclear on me for no reason.

Now, there are 3 guys walking their big frame pitbull here too. I do not like the look of these guys and keep my distance from the dog. Even though the dog doesn't even look at me when passing by, the eyes are not filled with love as my friend's pitbull. But that is not the pitbull's fault, any other breed would look like this in these guys' hands.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by machine gewehr

First of all, I have dog phobia. I used to lock down if a dog approached me unless it's a puppy. I am known to push my girlfriend towards a dog just to get away from it. I wasn't a proud man.


My friend who is an animal lover rescued two dogs. One of them is a kind of a hunting dog the other is a pitbull. When she rescued the pitbull had scars all over and was in a bad shape. He's a smaller frame pitbull that was used as the practice dog for the bigger pitbulls. Luckily he survived and has a loving home now.

However, when a big truck passes by he pisses himself. He is so loving that I sat with him and petted him for hours. He is a giant bag of muscled love. He loves to love people despite what has been done to him.

The only thing he couldn't shake is, if you are standing and lean on to him he starts growling and backs away. Those ******* used to beat him in that position.

First time I saw him, I almost locked down. An hour later I was the only one who would love the **** out of him in the group. I know my friend takes such good care of him, I am not afraid of him going nuclear on me for no reason.

Now, there are 3 guys walking their big frame pitbull here too. I do not like the look of these guys and keep my distance from the dog. Even though the dog doesn't even look at me when passing by, the eyes are not filled with love as my friend's pitbull. But that is not the pitbull's fault, any other breed would look like this in these guys' hands.

Yeah I've always thought that a dog is so often a reflection of their owner.

[Ziltoid]

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