The Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools: Yay or Nay?

Holy War · #1 10-27-2009, 03:53 PM

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Edit: Lets keep this one clean guys

Joe Gress · #2 10-27-2009, 03:54 PM

fo shizzle · #3 10-27-2009, 03:58 PM

I remember reading Gary Shandling in Esquire, " Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, it's not the "under God" part that bugs me. It's the "Pledge" part. How do we expect kids to even know what a pledge means.

Anything that can make a kid feel like he's "less" than his peers doesn't need to be in public schools.

Holy War · #4 10-27-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fo shizzle

I remember reading Gary Shandling in Esquire, " Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, it's not the "under God" part that bugs me. It's the "Pledge" part. How do we expect kids to even know what a pledge means.

Anything that can make a kid feel like he's "less" than his peers doesn't need to be in public schools.

Theyre in a school right?

CBgaragebassist · #5 10-27-2009, 04:04 PM

I support the Armed Forces, I'm for the most part ok with our government, and i'm not an Atheist(Christian, btw) but i don't say the pledge. Haven't said it since i was 10. It just reminds me too much of cult-like things. I can understand if you're in the Armed Forces or work for the govt, but anything else, not so much.

Jimmy Bones · #6 10-27-2009, 04:15 PM

The pledge is an important part of a daily routine. It was annoying when I was a kid, but I see the need for it now.

Here's an example:

When I was in the Navy, I had a guy I went to sea with on a few missions named Kao, he was an American guy of Chinese origin, not ancestry. Taiwanese or Mainland China, I don't recall, but it's irrelevant. He had the same job that I did, the same clearances and special program inclusions, and was trusted HIGHLY by the government and DONCAF gave him his clearance without reservation.

This is the same guy who openly said that if we ever got caught on station, or if we ever went to war with them, he would immediately defect to China.

He grew up in Asia, immigrated to the US when he was in his early teens. Never went through the pledge routine, and doesn't really hold any regard for his citizenship in our fine nation. Might have a lot to do with the fact that the guy's a douche, but I doubt that's all.

Bocete · #7 10-27-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones

The pledge is an important part of a daily routine. It was annoying when I was a kid, but I see the need for it now.

Here's an example:

When I was in the Navy, I had a guy I went to sea with on a few missions named Kao, he was an American guy of Chinese origin, not ancestry. Taiwanese or Mainland China, I don't recall, but it's irrelevant. He had the same job that I did, the same clearances and special program inclusions, and was trusted HIGHLY by the government and DONCAF gave him his clearance without reservation.

This is the same guy who openly said that if we ever got caught on station, or if we ever went to war with them, he would immediately defect to China.

He grew up in Asia, immigrated to the US when he was in his early teens. Never went through the pledge routine, and doesn't really hold any regard for his citizenship in our fine nation. Might have a lot to do with the fact that the guy's a douche, but I doubt that's all.

Would a pledge change the guy's attitude? Words can be said without believing in them.

A pledge is nothing unless you believe in it; if you do, even remotely, it will strenghten your belief. If you don't, being forced into making it might make things worse.

UnsungZeros · #8 10-27-2009, 04:45 PM

^^ That.

I fail to see how national allegiance is relevant to obtaining an education.

Lesfunk · #9 10-27-2009, 04:48 PM

big yay

**jmattbassplaya** · #10 10-27-2009, 04:56 PM

Yes. It`s a unifying thing when you realize that ever school across the nation is doing it roughly the same time as you.

The only thing they need to do is remove the words "under God" which were added in 1954. It`s started a lot of unneeded controversy.

Jimmy Bones · #11 10-27-2009, 04:59 PM

The fact that the mention of an unspecified god offends you offends me.

gold_member_321 · #12 10-27-2009, 05:03 PM

Definitely not. For no reason should a child knowingly or unknowingly(Depending on age, I'm sure a 1st grader has no idea what they are saying or pledging to) be subjected to any form of religion in school. Once I hit 9th grade I refused to stand and say the pledge of allegiance because I am not religious. I'm not trying to start anything. I just dont think its right because the entire nation is not in fact under god; because not everyone is religious.

gold_member_321 · #13 10-27-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Yes. It`s a unifying thing when you realize that ever school across the nation is doing it roughly the same time as you.

The only thing they need to do is remove the words "under God" which were added in 1954. It`s started a lot of unneeded controversy.

+1

Lesfunk · #14 10-27-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Yes. It`s a unifying thing when you realize that ever school across the nation is doing it roughly the same time as you.

The only thing they need to do is remove the words "under God" which were added in 1954. It`s started a lot of unneeded controversy.

I don't think The words "Under God" Started any controversy.
I think the controversy was started by a couple of rather intolerant people who felt that because they didn't like the words "under God" so much that EVERYONE should be legally forced NOT to say it in school.

It spread to other intolerant people until it became a "popular" movement so to speak. Not that I think it really is but the squeaky wheel gets the grease

PasdaBeer · #15 10-27-2009, 05:15 PM

Jim Campbell · #16 10-27-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy War

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Edit: Lets keep this one clean guys

the fact that people are free to choose not to participate in the pledge is part of the reason america is free....

you can compel anyone to recite the words but you will never know who believes them

Steveaux · #17 10-27-2009, 05:19 PM

I voted in favor.

I'm an atheist. But without compromise in favor of a greater good, there can be no civility.

Lesfunk · #18 10-27-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveaux

I voted in favor.

I'm an atheist. But without compromise in favor of a greater good, there can be no civility.

thats a nice way of putting it

LSquared · #19 10-27-2009, 05:21 PM

Seems to me, the US Government (via the US taxpayers) is funding these educations. It is perfectly reasonable for us to teach kids citizenship, what it means to be part of this country. We should, of course, talk about what a pledge is, and what this one means... and we should expect these kids to ponder the meaning of these words, both in a universal, and in a personal sense.

Of course, it does raise another interesting side issue: Should a immigrant child (legal immigrant) be expected (or allowed) to say our pledge?? Conversly, should a high school kid who doesn't want to pledge allegiance to the US be asked to renounce their citizenship?? It all gets complicated...

**jmattbassplaya** · #20 10-27-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesfunk

I don't think The words "Under God" Started any controversy.
I think the controversy was started by a couple of rather intolerant people who felt that because they didn't like the words "under God" so much that EVERYONE should be legally forced NOT to say it in school.

It spread to other intolerant people until it became a "popular" movement so to speak. Not that I think it really is but the squeaky wheel gets the grease

Intolerant because they don`t like the word God, or intolerant because it`s assumed everyone in the US is of a religious faith, and thus under God? Goes both ways you see.

Also, it`s not illegal to say 'under God'. You can choose to say it, not say it, or not say the pledge at all. But considering I`ve had family fight in every war since the Revolution you better believe I **** well am going to say it.