Pro Sports: People in various Halls Of Fame that should/shouldn't be

[bassrique]

I was just listening to sports radio where an argument that the recently inducted Dennis Rodman (NBA) really is a not a bonafide HOFer. I think he was one of the best rebounders I've ever seen, therefore he is deserving of the NBA HOF.

What are some other players (from any sport) that have been viewed as borderline?

[taquitos43]

It's a travesty that Ray Guy isn't in the Pro Football HOF!

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by taquitos43

It's a travesty that Ray Guy isn't in the Pro Football HOF!

That's a ---- good point. remember him kicking those boomers that changed field position. Has Ray Guy been in consideration only to fall short every vote?

[tastybasslines]

I know he will be a first ballot HOF'er but I think Jerome Bettis should not get in. He was good, not great and I don't think longevity (which got him all those yards) and 5th all time rushing should be a big factor.

In that case, Jamie Moyer should get in the baseball HOF alone, just for having perhaps the longest career as a pitcher.

I feel that you have to "change the game" in some way and Rodman did that, just like Neon Deon did too.

[basstotheface]

Roger Maris, most homeruns in a single season. Still not in Cooperstown.

[stratovani]

Over at the Cold Hard Football Facts they have an article about the Hall of Very Good. There's probably a few PFHoF players who should probably be in the Hall of Very Good instead.

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Pro football's Hall of Very Good (yes, it exists!)

[Funky Ghost]

Time to piss some folks off

[stratovani]

There's also a few guys who IMO shouldn't be in the Hockey Hall of Fame, like Dick Duff, Bernie Federko, Mike Gartner, or Bob Pulford. The Hall of the Very Good, but not the Hall of Fame. That's probably true of every sport that has a Hall of Fame.

[bassrique]

Lynn Swann should not be in the HOF?

[burk48237]

I have more problems with guys who aren't in then guys who are.

Allan Trammell and Lou Whitaker the greatest double play combination in the history of the game aren't in. And Trammell by any standard of measure, even fielding pct. was a heads over heals better shortstop than Ozzie Smith who is in.

I think baseballs the worse, there are a lot of East Coast/ Chicago / West Coast homers voting. In fact none of the 84 Tigers is in the Hall, another one who definitely should be considered is Jack Morris. He was certainly one of the most dominant pitchers of the late 70's and early 80's and the best big game pitcher of that era, as he proved in big series wins with three different teams.

As far as Rodman he was the best defensive player I ever saw, even better than Ben Wallace or Michael Cooper. I think he's far more deserving than Reggie Miller for instance. There's a reason Dennis has five rings and Miller none. I personally think it's incredible that a 6'7" guy can lead a league loaded with 7 footers in rebounding year after year.

[basstotheface]

Originally Posted by burk48237

I have more problems with guys who aren't in then guys who are.

Allan Trammell and Lou Whitaker the greatest double play combination in the history of the game aren't in. And Trammell by any standard of measure, even fielding pct. was a heads over heals better shortstop than Ozzie Smith who is in.

I think baseballs the worse, there are a lot of East Coast/ Chicago / West Coast homers voting. In fact none of the 84 Tigers is in the Hall, another one who definitely should be considered is Jack Morris. He was certainly one of the most dominant pitchers of the late 70's and early 80's and the best big game pitcher of that era, as he proved in big series wins with three different teams.

As far as Rodman he was the best defensive player I ever saw, even better than Ben Wallace or Michael Cooper. I think he's far more deserving than Reggie Miller for instance. There's a reason Dennis has five rings and Miller none. I personally think it's incredible that a 6'7" guy can lead a league loaded with 7 footers in rebounding year after year.

1. That reason is Micheal Jordan
2. The league was not "loaded" with 7 footers when Rodman played.

[taquitos43]

Originally Posted by bassrique

That's a ---- good point. remember him kicking those boomers that changed field position. Has Ray Guy been in consideration only to fall short every vote?

It's a shame when a player who defines a position can't make it. He's considered every year it seems only to be voted out.

I'm pretty sure that there are no punters in the HOF. I think that's crap! They let Steve Sabol from NFL Films in. How is it they'll exclude a football position and still let a media figure in?

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by taquitos43

It's a shame when a player who defines a position can't make it. He's considered every year it seems only to be voted out.

I'm pretty sure that there are no punters in the HOF. I think that's crap! They let Steve Sabol from NFL Films in. How is it they'll exclude a football position and still let a media figure in?

+1 again. Special teams are underrated. My TB Bucs just picked up a very good free agent punter/kickoff specialist from Atlanta. For a "cheap" organization, they paid top dollar, and it's a wise investment.

[stratovani]

Originally Posted by taquitos43

It's a shame when a player who defines a position can't make it. He's considered every year it seems only to be voted out.

I'm pretty sure that there are no punters in the HOF. I think that's crap! They let Steve Sabol from NFL Films in. How is it they'll exclude a football position and still let a media figure in?

No punters, and only one place kicker - Jan Stenerud. Also a load of offensive players but comparatively few defensive players, and even fewer linemen.

[Funky Ghost]

Originally Posted by bassrique

Lynn Swann should not be in the HOF?

The remarkably low career statistics of Lynn Swann, who is in the Hall of Fame.

In fact, he is one of only 17 modern-era wide receivers in the pro football Hall of Fame. that places him in some pretty elite company, despite the fact that he is not in the top fifty, or even close, in any major receiving statistic in NFL history.

How low are Swann's rankings? Take a look at the wide receiver page on Pro Football Reference and you might be surprised:

His 5,462 receiving yards place him 149th on the all-time list, behind even six tight-ends and five running backs.

His 51 career receiving touchdowns put him in a three-way tie for 75th all time with Tony Hill and Del Shofner.

His 336 career receptions place him in a three-way tie for 225th on the all-time list. In fact, thirty-four running backs have more career receptions than Lynn Swann, and Dave Megget has just as many. Further, 30 tight ends have more career receptions than Lynn Swann, and Charlie Sanders has just as many.

225th, 149th, and 75th? That is good enough to place someone in the top seventeen receivers of all-time? Not even close. These statistics are not even good enough to put someone in consideration for the Hall of Fame.

Some might counter that Swann did only play for a short period of time (nine years), and the NFL has become a lot more pass-oriented since he retired. However, a look at how Swann ranked among his contemporaries shows that his statistics were not even very good for his time period:

Swann never finished in the top five among receptions in any of his nine seasons in the NFL, and only finished in the top ten twice. He finished seventh in 1977 and 1978.

Swann only finished in the top five among receiving yards in the NFL once in his nine seasons, when he finished fourth in 1977. He only finished in the top ten three of his nine seasons, coming in 8th in 1975, and 7th in 1978.

Swann only finished in the top ten among receiving touchdowns in the NFL three times in his nine seasons. He finished in a tie for sixth in 1977, came in second in 1978, and tied for first in 1975.

Even for the era in which he played and for the short length of his career, Lynn Swann's statistics are very thin. Heck, he only made the Pro Bowl three times in his nine-year career. Those were the same three seasons when some or all of his statistics nosed into the top ten in the league. This means that in reality, he only had three good seasons, but even then he was never the best receiver in the league. or on his team for that matter, in any of those three seasons. Three good seasons without ever being the best shouldn't get someone within a country mile of the Hall of Fame.

Yet further, for his entire career he was on the same team as Hall of Fame wide receiver John Stallworth. In fact, the two came into the league in the same year, 1974, but Stallworth has better career statistics than Swann in every single category. Also, Swann played his entire career with Hall of Fame running back Franco Harris, who is among the top twenty all-time in every major statistical category for running backs. In other words, Swann couldn't even get free to rack up big yardage when opposing defenses had at least two other main threats to focus on.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by bassrique

I was just listening to sports radio where an argument that the recently inducted Dennis Rodman (NBA) really is a not a bonafide HOFer. I think he was one of the best rebounders I've ever seen, therefore he is deserving of the NBA HOF.

For the record it is not the NBA Hall of Fame it is the The Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. So in the Rodman class of inductees you have Arvydas Sabonis on the strength of his International and European career and not his NBA career with Portland.

Originally Posted by bassrique

Lynn Swann should not be in the HOF?

I guess Lynn Swann was like Big Game James Worthy in basketball, he was good enough but come Super Bowl time I still remember Swann's catches but not Stallworth's

[bassrique]

You guys make a good case re: Swann, but I will always remember this:

[jrthebassguy]

One thing about the NBA though: Getting into the basketball HOF isn't nearly as hard as other sports. The basketball HOF has tons of European guys we've never heard of.

MLB is arguably the hardest HOF to get in, followed closely by the NFL.

[Funky Ghost]

And that's why he made it. The spectacular catches. They were always timed perfectly Don't get me wrong, I like Swann, but he's not a HoF'r (well he IS but it's for all the wrong reasons. It's not a popularity contest. It's a numbers race, and he lost by a wide margin) IMO. If he is, then Joe Jurevicious should be. I remember his crazy catches too.

[madmatt]

Pete Rose.
Nobody will ever come close to his number of hits.
Ever.