QIN???...C'MON

Lonesomedave · #1 02-24-2013, 08:53 AM

all right...i realize this is a very small nit to pick in the overall scheme of things...but it has bugged me, and i thought i would post.

re: China...how could they (whoever THEY are) have possibly decided that the name of China in english is going to be QIN, AND that it will be pronounced CHIN?...or am i wrong.

in the first place a "Q" without a "U" is improper in almost every possible use of english.

i can only think of one other such usage...."IRAQ"....and that, at least, has the Q at the very end.

also, who decided that this particular spelling was going to be correct in spelling a word that is pronounced "CHIN"?

what is going on here?...am i totally mistaken in my assumptions...and if so, PLEASE feel free to correct me because i certainly want to be corrected and don't have all the answers...but....

it seems to me to be the work of ivory Tower snobs/dumbasses...both chinese and those outside china, who got together and said WE DEEM THIS TO BE CORRECT...and to he** with proper english, or any other use, and to he** with the fact that nowhere else is Q pronounced "CH"

i mean, am i wrong here too? IS there any other place that Q is pronounced CH? just askin'

rant over

HaMMerHeD · #2 02-24-2013, 08:56 AM

Qatar

Lonesomedave · #3 02-24-2013, 08:58 AM

correction noted...but at least it's pronounced Katar

tplyons · #4 02-24-2013, 09:47 AM

The correct spelling of 'chi' as in life force is actually Qi.

**smperry** · #5 02-24-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

i mean, am i wrong here too? IS there any other place that Q is pronounced CH? just askin'

rant over

yes, you are completely wrong. There is the Qin (pronounced Chin) Dynasty, and as pointed out before me, the Q in "Qi" is pronounced "Ch"

1958Bassman · #6 02-24-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

all right...i realize this is a very small nit to pick in the overall scheme of things...but it has bugged me, and i thought i would post.

re: China...how could they (whoever THEY are) have possibly decided that the name of China in english is going to be QIN, AND that it will be pronounced CHIN?...or am i wrong.

in the first place a "Q" without a "U" is improper in almost every possible use of english.

i can only think of one other such usage...."IRAQ"....and that, at least, has the Q at the very end.

also, who decided that this particular spelling was going to be correct in spelling a word that is pronounced "CHIN"?

what is going on here?...am i totally mistaken in my assumptions...and if so, PLEASE feel free to correct me because i certainly want to be corrected and don't have all the answers...but....

it seems to me to be the work of ivory Tower snobs/dumbasses...both chinese and those outside china, who got together and said WE DEEM THIS TO BE CORRECT...and to he** with proper english, or any other use, and to he** with the fact that nowhere else is Q pronounced "CH"

i mean, am i wrong here too? IS there any other place that Q is pronounced CH? just askin'

rant over

We pronounce China the way we do because the explorers pronounced it, rather, they changed it, to suit themselves. Every language has rules for pronunciation when certain letters are combined and if you had thought about this instead of just reacting, you would have realized this. If you speak another language, you should already know this.

If you don't speak Spanish, you know that a single L or l is used the same as in English, but Ll or ll sounds about the same as Y or y in English. R and rr have different sounds, too. R is just like that letter in English, but rr is rolled when speaking Spanish- always.

In Chinese, Xi rhymes with 'she' and their Qi rhymes with chi, as in 'chicken'.

It's not the one letter, it's the combination of Q and i that requires this sound in THEIR language, which DOES NOT need to fit OUR language.

Why is this a problem for you? The rest of the English-speaking world has bastardized every language they've tried to speak, for hundreds of years. They had a functional language, complete with the characters used for writing it, for thousands of years before anyone from Europe landed there- why should they change to suit anyone else?

Lonesomedave · #7 02-24-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smperry

yes, you are completely wrong. There is the Qin (pronounced Chin) Dynasty, and as pointed out before me, the Q in "Qi" is pronounced "Ch"

no, i'm sorry...those do not count...they are all chinese and subject to the same objections that i have about QIN...

you can say a tail is a leg but that don't make it one...

my point is...why did they do it in the first place? "Q" is not pronounced "CH" in any other context...so why did they do it here?

jmattbassplaya · #8 02-24-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

no, i'm sorry...those do not count...they are all chinese and subject to the same objections that i have about QIN...

you can say a tail is a leg but that don't make it one...

my point is...why did they do it in the first place? "Q" is not pronounced "CH" in any other context...so why did they do it here?

I'm a little perplexed by your attitude regarding this. Normally you're pretty level headed...

bongomania · #9 02-24-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tplyons

The correct spelling of 'chi' as in life force is actually Qi.

Qi is only one of multiple possible correct transliterations; this is true of all Chinese words and all words from non-Roman written languages. Note here a list of 11 different systems for Chinese transliteration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Chinese
Look at the multiple spellings in news outlets of names from the Middle East for other examples.

guy n. cognito · #10 02-24-2013, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I'm a little perplexed by your attitude regarding this. Normally you're pretty level headed...

Lonesomedave · #11 02-24-2013, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1958Bassman

We pronounce China the way we do because the explorers pronounced it, rather, they changed it, to suit themselves. Every language has rules for pronunciation when certain letters are combined and if you had thought about this instead of just reacting, you would have realized this. If you speak another language, you should already know this.

If you don't speak Spanish, you know that a single L or l is used the same as in English, but Ll or ll sounds about the same as Y or y in English. R and rr have different sounds, too. R is just like that letter in English, but rr is rolled when speaking Spanish- always.

In Chinese, Xi rhymes with 'she' and their Qi rhymes with chi, as in 'chicken'.

It's not the one letter, it's the combination of Q and i that requires this sound in THEIR language, which DOES NOT need to fit OUR language.

Why is this a problem for you? The rest of the English-speaking world has bastardized every language they've tried to speak, for hundreds of years. They had a functional language, complete with the characters used for writing it, for thousands of years before anyone from Europe landed there- why should they change to suit anyone else?

well...considering that chinese do not have an alphabet like ours, but have borrowed ours to phonetically spell their words (not passing judgment here, just saying)

why bend over backwards to make letters sound like something they are not designed for.

for example...how is QI superior to CHI?...don't know...just askin'

and as far as why i am so upset by it...i point you to my first phrase in the OP...."this is a very small nit to pick"....it doesn't upset me very much...i just want to know.

ps-edit...on the part of your quote i have emphasized...i have no doubt they did have have that and i am not asking them to change anything to suit anybody else...what i am pointing out is that when they translated that language into english they did so, in this particular case, by using a letter combination that is not seen anywhere else....how can QI be pronounced CH except by fiat..."we are going to say it is so."

**HeavyDuty** · #12 02-24-2013, 10:15 AM

Dave, are you still upset over Peking/Bejing? It's their language and country, after all.

ADbassman · #13 02-24-2013, 10:17 AM

The Q in Iraq comes from this little fellow ق , as in العراق. The same letter is used in Qatar = قطر. It's the arabic qaaf and it's closest transliteration is Q. Both of these words also have letters that don't occur in english, the ع and the ط. The ع is pronounced like the number 9, with an A, do more like Ayn. The ط, is an emphatic T sound like TAH. Thus, Iraq and Qatar.

I don't know if that has anything to do with your point, as I don't speak chinese, but I do speak Arabic.

Lonesomedave · #14 02-24-2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavyDuty

Dave, are you still upset over Peking/Bejing? It's their language and country, after all.

nope...not upset at all over this or over that last one...until you mentioned it just now, i had forgotten all about it....

and yes, of course it is their language....not trying to tell them how to speak it or write...it is the translation into another language that bugs me... and that not much...just a little nit to pick

**Pacman** · #15 02-24-2013, 10:24 AM

Dude.

Decaf.

Tituscrow · #16 02-24-2013, 10:25 AM

Where is The Quintar when you need him? He'd sort out this unholy mess, and no mistake.

fdeck · #17 02-24-2013, 10:26 AM

It's nothing to bitq about.

Philonius · #18 02-24-2013, 10:29 AM

It's called Pinyin, and is just an agreed-upon method of rendering words which have a separate set of phonenemes (look it up if you need to) and a completely different written language into English. Since we want to have a way of writing their language that makes some sense phonetically, we do what we can.

Previously, the Wade-Giles transcription method. Some of those spellings are still in common use. Peking was the older form of what we now more commonly see rendered as Beijing. The newer Pinyin is probably more accurate, but never completely true to the original pronunciation.

I'd not heard the push to start using Qin instead of China, but it does refer both to a BCE dynasty and a state within the political entity now known as China.

God bless 'Murica.

Tegzsa · #19 02-24-2013, 10:31 AM

er...even in the pocket version of the Oxford English Dictionary there is a two page list of q not followed by u (for the use of Scrabble players). From cinq and eqwal to qwytt, shoq, suq and tariqa by way of qanet, qhwom and qvele.

Lonesomedave · #20 02-24-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegzsa

er...even in the pocket version of the Oxford English Dictionary there is a two page list of q not followed by u (for the use of Scrabble players). From cinq and eqwal to qwytt, shoq, suq and tariqa by way of qanet, qhwom and qvele.

oh, i've been corrected already on that score...