Question about hostage standoffs...

MJ5150 · #1 02-03-2010, 07:40 AM

OK...so in about every TV show or movie with a bad guy holding someone hostage, there comes down to a scene where the good guy and bad guy come face to face while the bad guy is holding the hostage. Both guys just stand there....the good guy with his gun aimed on the bad guy, the bad guy with his gun aimed on the hostage.

Is it really possible for the bad guy to fire his gun as soon as the good guy fires his if they are close range? It seems like the second the good guy shoots his, the bad guy would die and fall down. I know there are some guys who are quick on the draw, but I don't see how it is possible that the bad guy could pull his trigger before the good guys bullet hit him.

Why the standoff? Seems easier if the good guy just pops the bad guy and gets it over with.

-Mike

Mark Latimour · #2 02-03-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ5150

OK...so in about every TV show or movie with a bad guy holding someone hostage, there comes down to a scene where the good guy and bad guy come face to face while the bad guy is holding the hostage. Both guys just stand there....the good guy with his gun aimed on the bad guy, the bad guy with his gun aimed on the hostage.

Is it really possible for the bad guy to fire his gun as soon as the good guy fires his if they are close range? It seems like the second the good guy shoots his, the bad guy would die and fall down. I know there are some guys who are quick on the draw, but I don't see how it is possible that the bad guy could pull his trigger before the good guys bullet hit him.

Why the standoff? Seems easier if the good guy just pops the bad guy and gets it over with.

-Mike

Chances are when you get shot, unless it kills you instantly, you muscles will contract. When they contract, that muscle thats already depressing the trigger held to the hostages head will contract and pull the trigger discharging the gun into the hostages head.

Relic · #3 02-03-2010, 08:10 AM

getting shot is a lot more messy than is depicted on tv. Even a shot to the face or head may not kill someone right away. To shoot a bad guy while they have a gun pointed at a hostage's head would not be very wise.

Jeff K · #4 02-03-2010, 08:12 AM

As a general rule, an action is always quicker than a reaction. As a law enforcement officer, we used to train on specific situations. For example, a guy would be sitting in a chair, simulating that he was in a car. The cop would approach and start to question him.

Now bear in mind, in training scenarios, you EXPECT the "bad guy" to do something he shouldn't. So you pretty much KNOW that you're going to have to draw quickly. But when the bad guy brings up his "gun" and "shoots", it is very rare that the cop can draw and fire quickly enough. Hence, the "action" is quicker than the "reaction".

But a situation like you describe (wherein the suspect has a gun to the hostage's head) also creates other problems. For the officer to fire, there are other variables to consider. How close is the suspect's head to the hostage's head? How about the adrenaline factor? You might be an excellent shot, but the slightest miscalculation or twitch could cause you to put one into the hostage's head instead of the suspect.

Now if there were a SWAT sniper with a tripod-mounted, scope-equipped rifle aimed in on the suspect, there's a good chance that he might take the shot. But the cop standing and aiming in on the suspect better make damn sure before pulling that trigger.

MJ5150 · #5 02-03-2010, 08:25 AM

Just the perspective I was looking for, thank you Jeff.

-Mike

ehque · #6 02-03-2010, 08:51 AM

I'm just kinda confused why the bad guy doesn't just shoot the good guy.

Jeff K · #7 02-03-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehque

I'm just kinda confused why the bad guy doesn't just shoot the good guy.

Because he knows that as soon as he even begins to move the gun away from the hostage toward the cop/good guy, the cop WILL shoot then because HIS life is now in danger. If he fires while the perp's gun is pointed toward the hostage, and accidentally kills/harms the hostage, his butt is on the line. However, if the gun is now coming in his direction, he is justified in firing in self-defense of his own life.

playinpearls · #8 02-03-2010, 11:39 AM

just shoot the hostage....

emor · #9 02-03-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff K

As a general rule, an action is always quicker than a reaction.

Interesting--I just heard a segment on Here and Now (kind of) regarding this topic.

"Draw First or Wait" (4:57)
http://www.hereandnow.org/#3

spade2you · #10 02-03-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playinpearls

just shoot the hostage....

Or get angry, and shoot your gun in the air yelling ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

**cheezewiz** · #11 02-03-2010, 03:05 PM

Because it's TV

Number27 · #12 02-03-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehque

I'm just kinda confused why the bad guy doesn't just shoot the good guy.

especially when he gets the good guy to inevitably drop his weapon

have you guys seen the movie Taken? there is a very similar scenario at the end of that movie (only the bad guy has a knife), i was really pleased with how it resolved (cuz i have also pondered this question.

ehque · #13 02-03-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff K

Because he knows that as soon as he even begins to move the gun away from the hostage toward the cop/good guy, the cop WILL shoot then because HIS life is now in danger. If he fires while the perp's gun is pointed toward the hostage, and accidentally kills/harms the hostage, his butt is on the line. However, if the gun is now coming in his direction, he is justified in firing in self-defense of his own life.

It's a VERY good chance the good guy will hit the hostage. The bad guy is shooting at a man-sized target, the good guy (if the bad guy covers himself well) is shooting at target that's half a head. Even if the bad guy gives the good guy the split second advantage, its a good chance the 2 dead people in that situation are the good guy and the hostage.

The proper tactic is of course for the good guy to get behind cover, at least as much cover that the bad guy has, before initiating negotiations.

ehque · #14 02-03-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff K

Because he knows that as soon as he even begins to move the gun away from the hostage toward the cop/good guy, the cop WILL shoot then because HIS life is now in danger. If he fires while the perp's gun is pointed toward the hostage, and accidentally kills/harms the hostage, his butt is on the line. However, if the gun is now coming in his direction, he is justified in firing in self-defense of his own life.

Oh, and he could simply move the gun, along the hostage's head, to the back of the hostage's head, and out to train it on the good guy. No down-time there.

machine gewehr · #15 02-04-2010, 06:27 AM

What bugs me more is,bad guys who talk so much that they forget to shoot the good guy.

They die during the talk,or in the fist fight after the ridiculously long long talk.

fdeck · #16 02-04-2010, 06:41 AM

Dirty Harry would shoot. Just saying.