Robert McNamara - Dead at 93

DigMe · #1 07-06-2009, 08:06 AM

I became somewhat fascinated with this guy after watching Erroll Morris's The Fog of War: 11 Lessons from the Life of Robert McNamara. He seemed to be a guy that spent a large part of his life attempting to make up for the sins and perceived sins of the first part.

Here's a little tune I put together a while back inspired by The Fog of War.

http://soundcloud.com/digme/slow-and-sudden

bc

Dr. Cheese · #2 07-06-2009, 09:25 AM

Robert McNamara was truly a remarkbale man. He was a brilliant man who was humble enough to publicly admit his greatest mistakes and tried to use his experience to teach others. I wish more public servants of all ideologies were as selfless as he was.

BTW, Fog of War is excellent. A professor with whom I teach a class with has used that film, and it leaves one heck on an impact on students.

BassChuck · #3 07-06-2009, 12:45 PM

I'll have to check out that "Fog Of War". To me he was a car salesman who lead our country in pointless war.

DigMe · #4 07-06-2009, 01:58 PM

Basschuck,

From what I understand from the movie he did what was asked of him by the president. However, undeniable evidence is presented that he attempted to convince the president that pulling out of Vietnam was the best solution. Of course we all know that solution was rejected. He is pretty forthcoming in the movie though about what he was and was not responsible for.

bc

burk48237 · #5 07-06-2009, 05:34 PM

I just finished "The Best and the Brightest" (David Halberstam) which is an exhaustive volume on JFK's Cabinet. Mcnamara was certainly a smart man and he did a great job restoring an noncompetitive Ford Motor Company. I suspect the movie is a bit generous. McNamara certainly didn't consider any pullouts until after Tet. He was a unique man put in a situation that he wasn't prepared for by life. I do wish his family the best.

becker4567 · #6 07-06-2009, 05:52 PM

Don't be fooled. Mcnamara was the Dick Cheney of the 60's. His "Brain Trust" sent more men to their deaths than can be forgiven. His "Points" system during the VietNam war remains one of the most astonishing war policies in in American history. Please don't shed too many tears for this person.......I was there and just his name makes me ill!
Rich L
Mediocre Bassist Club #285
Short Scale Club #135
17th River Rescue and Recon Group (River Rats)

WickedPissah · #7 07-06-2009, 06:13 PM

I met a Vietnam veteran who could not even stand to hear McNamara's name.

DigMe · #8 07-06-2009, 07:02 PM

Don't get me wrong - McNamara was guilty of many sins regarding that war. Absolutely he was and I can understand why he is and was hated by many. But Morris played an oval office recording from 1964 (four years before Tet in fact) of McNamara suggesting a gradual pullout and LBJ strongly vetoing that idea. Yes, McNamara went on to do the things he did and of course he played a large role in many of the plans but he wasn't the one calling the shots on Vietnam. When it came down to it ultimately it was the president.

bc

Dr. Cheese · #9 07-07-2009, 09:44 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/op...bert.html?_r=1

Here is an editorial from Bob Herbert that I think reflects the feelings of some of the posters on this thread. I was too young to be directly impacted by Vietnam although my father, who a career Airforce man, did two tours there.

I hope this is not too political.

fo shizzle · #10 07-07-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becker4567

Don't be fooled. Mcnamara was the Dick Cheney of the 60's. His "Brain Trust" sent more men to their deaths than can be forgiven. His "Points" system during the VietNam war remains one of the most astonishing war policies in in American history. Please don't shed too many tears for this person.......I was there and just his name makes me ill!
Rich L
Mediocre Bassist Club #285
Short Scale Club #135
17th River Rescue and Recon Group (River Rats)

What he said.......

Saying you were wrong doesn't absolve you of your sins.

ThunderLizard · #11 07-07-2009, 10:10 AM

Doesn't look like we've learned much as a nation. I'm old enough to remember the Vietnam war...and the spin and reframing of the reasons to continue the Iraq war is a carbon copy of what happened in Vietnam. Maybe that's why I've been so PO'd for the last 8 years.
We should always challenge the use of military force and make it the final option, not the first.

MakiSupaStar · #12 07-07-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Robert McNamara was truly a remarkbale man. He was a brilliant man who was humble enough to publicly admit his greatest mistakes and tried to use his experience to teach others. I wish more public servants of all ideologies were as selfless as he was.

BTW, Fog of War is excellent. A professor with whom I teach a class with has used that film, and it leaves one heck on an impact on students.

+1. The dude was incredibly smart. Glad he was on our side. Fog of War is amazing. I highly recommend it. RIP Mr. McNamara.