School closures and combining grade levels

[gustobassman]

So the San Diego Unified School district, like many others in our country, is having budget problems and a committee recently decided to select certain schools for closure and combine others. I understand about budget issues, and if a school is only having 60% occupancy maybe it's a good idea to combine elementary schools or middle schools. But then again smaller class size has always appealed to me.

However one of the ideas is to close a middle school and combine it with a high school (not one with a great reputation either). The idea of 6th graders being exposed to what HS seniors do is just appalling to me. Maybe i'm in a minority, there weren't many (or any) K-12 or 5-12 schools when i grew up here in SD. I know there are a lot of parents who shudder at the thought of their 15 y.o. daughter dating an 18 year HS senior, but what about seeing a 12 y.o. in the same situation? Not to mention the gang/drug activity is much higher in high school, along with truancy and vandalism.

Is this a good way for schools to go? I'm not a parent, but i know mine would've had a conniption if i as a 12 y.o. was expected to be in that situation. Thoughts anyone?

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by gustobassman

So the San Diego Unified School district, like many others in our country, is having budget problems and a committee recently decided to select certain schools for closure and combine others. I understand about budget issues, and if a school is only having 60% occupancy maybe it's a good idea to combine elementary schools or middle schools. But then again smaller class size has always appealed to me.

However one of the ideas is to close a middle school and combine it with a high school (not one with a great reputation either). The idea of 6th graders being exposed to what HS seniors do is just appalling to me. Maybe i'm in a minority, there weren't many (or any) K-12 or 5-12 schools when i grew up here in SD. I know there are a lot of parents who shudder at the thought of their 15 y.o. daughter dating an 18 year HS senior, but what about seeing a 12 y.o. in the same situation? Not to mention the gang/drug activity is much higher in high school, along with truancy and vandalism.

Is this a good way for schools to go? I'm not a parent, but i know mine would've had a conniption if i as a 12 y.o. was expected to be in that situation. Thoughts anyone?

That's been common in new York for some time now.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

So it's splitting into being two schools levels, as opposed to three? (the grade thing is a bit different to how we do it here).

It isn't the end of the world, and while girls will tend to date older guys, the ones that were going to date much older guys would likely do it anyway.

Over here we have Primary school (7 years, ages 5 til 12, roughly) and High School (which is 4 to 6 years and ages 12 to 18 (but you can leave after your 4th year if you are 16)), so, I don't see much of a problem with it, but that's because that's the way it is here and how I went to school, so my view will be different to those who have had a 'middle school'.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

So it's splitting into being two schools levels, as opposed to three? (the grade thing is a bit different to how we do it here).

It isn't the end of the world, and while girls will tend to date older guys, the ones that were going to date much older guys would likely do it anyway.

Over here we have Primary school (7 years, ages 5 til 12, roughly) and High School (which is 4 to 6 years and ages 12 to 18 (but you can leave after your 4th year if you are 16)), so, I don't see much of a problem with it, but that's because that's the way it is here and how I went to school, so my view will be different to those who have had a 'middle school'.

Typically you have your K-5 elementary, 6-8 middle, and 9-12 high school. I do know that "kids are growing up faster" and tv exposes kids to more than they need to see. And yea, i did say that i was probably in the minority, but just the thought of a 12 y.o possibly idolizing (or even worse, sharing classes with) a knucklehead senior just seems like a distraction.

[john grey]

My son is 22 now but when he was young we did EVERYTHING we could to keep him in private school. I taught in the public school system some years back and know a several teachers believe the public school system in the USA went from poor to worse. I would NOT put my children in American public schools if I had any choice. I'm not talking about Charter, magnet, or gifted schools; but the standard public school - especially on a Tribal land, a "suburb", or many urban areas. In fact from what I have seen some urban school systems are better than the standard suburban system.

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by john grey

My son is 22 now but when he was young we did EVERYTHING we could to keep him in private school. I taught in the public school system some years back and know a several teachers believe the public school system in the USA went from poor to worse. I would NOT put my children in American public schools if I had any choice. I'm not talking about Charter, magnet, or gifted schools; but the standard public school - especially on a Tribal land, a "suburb", or many urban areas. In fact from what I have seen some urban school systems are better than the standard suburban system.

That's a pretty broad generalization.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by gustobassman

Typically you have your K-5 elementary, 6-8 middle, and 9-12 high school. I do know that "kids are growing up faster" and tv exposes kids to more than they need to see. And yea, i did say that i was probably in the minority, but just the thought of a 12 y.o possibly idolizing (or even worse, sharing classes with) a knucklehead senior just seems like a distraction.

That could be where things are different here. How could they end up sharing classes?

I just ask because over here you'd only see sharing between the classes of students in the final year and penultimate year. So ages of 16-18.

Originally Posted by john grey

My son is 22 now but when he was young we did EVERYTHING we could to keep him in private school. I taught in the public school system some years back and know a several teachers believe the public school system in the USA went from poor to worse. I would NOT put my children in American public schools if I had any choice. I'm not talking about Charter, magnet, or gifted schools; but the standard public school - especially on a Tribal land, a "suburb", or many urban areas. In fact from what I have seen some urban school systems are better than the standard suburban system.

I went through a pretty crappy high school.

They introduced a system where they mixed the top 15 pupils from the year with the bottom 15 pupils (averages right!). I was in said class, hopefully from being in the top half! Really taught you to learn and fend for yourself!

My big issue with private schools, at least over here, they tend to spoonfeed and baby students. So the students get good grades, but as soon as they are outwith that environment, they are useless! (generalising of course)

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

That could be where things are different here. How could they end up sharing classes?

I just ask because over here you'd only see sharing between the classes of students in the final year and penultimate year. So ages of 16-18.

You would be surprised. I failed algebra. I had to take it again in my senior year with 9th graders. Me and 2 other seniors were the only ones above 9th grade in the class. Some schools give priorities to athletes and make them take only what they need to graduate. So what if you only read at an 8th grade level, as long as the school got press for football games. I went to a snooty "better-than-you" public HS and I saw it myself.

So maybe they wouldn't be "sharing" classes but there may be exceptions.

[john grey]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

That's a pretty broad generalization.

Yes it is. We can only offer opinions from what our experiences are. I would imagine that there are very good public schools somewhere; public schools that have gotten more productive over the years & have much more effective teaching mechanisms. yet to what end? A child eventually needs to operate intellectually at a level appropriate with their age. However, any institution is measured by the elemental product it produces. A child who does not have a grasp of basic language, arithmetic, conceptual mathematics, science, government, & literature is certainly not ready for entry into higher education.

Are children today better educated than they were a decade or two or three in the past? Why are we putting more money into the school system and demanding that they have standardized testing to determine the quality of educational output of the students? Is the average student who enters a university ready for that environment? Are they better equipped than they were in the past? Sadly, they are not.

We see proof of this by how many student struggle in a university environment. There is the proof of the problem. I certainly don't see how that is a child's fault when they are not educated to the basics of what will be demanded of them later in life.

[fourstringdrums]

When I was in school, middle & high were always combined.

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by john grey

My son is 22 now but when he was young we did EVERYTHING we could to keep him in private school. I taught in the public school system some years back and know a several teachers believe the public school system in the USA went from poor to worse. I would NOT put my children in American public schools if I had any choice. I'm not talking about Charter, magnet, or gifted schools; but the standard public school - especially on a Tribal land, a "suburb", or many urban areas. In fact from what I have seen some urban school systems are better than the standard suburban system.

You're fortunate to have good private schools in your area. The private schools around here only teach two things: football and religion. I went to public school and got a way better education than my rich peers.

I have a friend who went to HS in the the most renowned private school in the area (renowned football team at least), and graduated without knowing any basic physical science, biology, sociology, or economics.

[Mike N]

Everyone is quick to blame the schools. How about parents being more involved?

[metallicafan18]

Our county closed 4 elementary schools (k-5) out of about 10. The middle schools now teaches 5th grade, and the other kids K-4 were split up between all the remaining elementary schools. I don't think the elementary schools have been damaged too much because they started off with small class sizes, but the middle schools now have too many kids and the schools are getting kind of run down. There are only 3 public middle schools and 2 public high schools in our county. So when kids from 10 separate elementary schools are split up between 3 middle schools, things get a little crowded. Without the 5th grade in the middle school, it wasn't a problem, but from what I understand, the 5th grade has added too many kids into one building.