The Semi-Depressing, Sadly Realistic Adventures of an Ebay Seller.

[michael_atw]

Now...for any of you that have sold extensively on ebay you know about the issues that can come up. The ones that involve disputes....partial refunds...and/or negative feedback. I have been selling for a few years (more so the past couple years), and selling guitar/bass stuff for almost a year. Well, issues come up occasionally. Many of the buyers are great to work with and solve the issues. Some involve shipping damage, some involve overlooked issues on my part, etc. Well, this past week for some reason I got hit with the complaint bug. Two of them I am recently playing email football about are rather strange IMO (and sadly, not surprising).

The first one involves a gig bag I sold. For some reason, I always have problems with gig bags. It seems like anything that can be overlooked gets overlooked...or anything that can go wrong, goes wrong. One thing I've noticed is the zippers on the gig bags have a tendency to get stuck and get caught in the lining. Anyways, I had a complaint from someone about a zipper on one. They stated the zipper to the large accessory pocket (Fender gig bags have a couple accessory pockets) was off the track. I guess I missed it. The person paid me $10 (not including shipping) for the gig bag. Well, according to them, they need a $10-$15 refund for the bag. How does that make any sense? I'm a seller trying to make a few bucks...and you have a gig bag that works perfectly fine for storing your guitar but has a small accessory pocket issue and you declare you need me to pay YOU an extra $5 so you can keep it?!?! Am I really as crazy as I am for thinking that is really insane? In any case, I made sure that it wasn't the guitar pocket and told them that sure, I may have missed the zipper on the accessory pocket but it is still perfect for its intended function. So I offered them a $3 refund. No response back, but I'm sure I'll get some demanding rant about how it's jacked up beyond usability and how it needs to be lit on fire. Judging by the username, it's someone who's going to resell it anyway.

The second one is...gah. A month ago, I sold a guitar neck for about two hundred bucks to a guy across the country. I send my necks out the same way every time (USPS, tube box). Pack them the same way. No issues ever with shipping damage. The buyer received it over 3 weeks ago. I receive an email a couple days ago from the seller about an issue. The seller proclaims that he never leaves bad feedback but is considering it, and then goes on to tell me about two "gouges" on the neck that were "looked over with the photos" and "the photos were dark". He asks me what I want to do, while implying I intentionally sold it to him like that. I ask for pics and with a delay I get the pictures. I ask him why he waited 3 weeks to email me. He says because "his camera battery died right after taking the pictures" and it took a week and a half to get a new battery pack. I said "What about the other week and a half?" He states they messed up and sent the wrong one. I ask why I didn't get an email weeks ago telling me that there was an issue but the camera was broken. I get no straight answer about this. I look at these pictures he sent. The "gouges" he describes are two small nicks on the back of the neck. They are visible, but no where near what I thought it would be. Now, this guy bought this neck for a customer of his. I guess he makes custom guitars or something. The customer won't accept it with these two small cosmetic dings. I tell the buyer it's just cosmetic and may affect the feel slightly but not the functionality at all.

Here's the kicker - this neck cost the seller $180....but he tells me to fix these two nicks this long ___ will cost $50-$75. I almost tossed on my keyboard. Am I nuts for thinking that a demand like that is absolutely insane? Maybe it's just the businessman in me. I tell him that after hearing nothing for 3 weeks, I don't feel its in my best interest to take it back. I ask him how the box looked and if there was shipping damage. The guy then continues to make ambiguous accusations about my honesty while simultaneously disregarding my questions about the condition of the box and possibility of shipping damage. And these people wonder why sellers react like I do?? I basically nicely and honestly said, "hey man...due to the strange circumstance and my almost entire belief that I did not overlook those small nicks, I can't take a return or give a partial refund that high." He asks what I would do if I were him and I told him plain and honest I would ask for $20, so I offered him $20. In the past couple emails he has stated I am "in denial" and even more now accuses me of intentionally sending it like this, all the while ignoring any possible alternatives that could have happened. And, just like the last guy...he's trying to make money off my item and now wants this huge compensation over a very small issue.

Alas...I have no response yet to my last email. I laid it plain and simple - $20 refund or you can file a complaint with ebay if you want. I've dealt with this before and have won almost every time, so I'm not worried. Why does it seem like buyers who are picking up stuff for other people feel the need to make outrageous demands?? Or am I crazy for thinking this??

I'm trying to be a great seller on ebay but the demands of some buyers are far more than I can accommodate. I don't cave into demands of buyers for quick, no-questions asked partial refunds in order to preserve my positive feedback - which seems like something that happens alot and that many buyers expect sellers to do. Maybe that's my issue?

Anyone else have selling stories like these (or worse)? Or have some advice or joyful banter?

[Dark Horse]

Never underestimate the d-baggery of the general public.



Everything you tried seems fair to me. IF...and that's only IF...the guy with the neck had contacted you immediately, something more could have been done IMO, even without pictures. But his story about waiting 3 weeks for a camera battery doesn't hold water to me. You should see if he "sells" stuff on Ebay. If so, did he post pictures of items he was selling during that time period where his camera was "unusable" ? Anyway, tell him how to steam out a ding and give him the $20 refund for his time. If he threatens to leave a neg again, simply tell him that you will happily put up a web page telling the story of the transaction (www.freewebs.com) and post the address as a "reply to feedback". Perhaps that will make him think about how he should have informed you immediately "IF" there were actual dings in the neck....(which I tend to doubt...I think it more likely that it got damaged at his place during those 3 weeks).

As for the gig bag... Yeah, the guy is being ridiculous, but to me, the $10 isn't worth the headache. I would simply refund the money, tell him to keep the bag, and just wash my hands of the situation. You've already spent too much time worrying and dealing with the transaction ...no need to draw it out over $10.

My $.02

[K2000]

I have a positive story... I bought an 80s Fender Strat on Ebay that was described as being in great condition. When it arrived, I was surprised to see it had a couple of small dings. I wrote a semi-angry email to the seller, telling him I was pissed, and that the guitar didn't meet my expectations of "great" condition.

Well, the fellow wrote me back an email saying that he always expected guitars to show a little wear or seasoning, especially older guitars, but he was willing to take the guitar back and give me refund, if I paid the return shipping. His response was sensible and it got me thinking sensibly too. I decided to keep the guitar, and it turns out to be my favorite.

My point is that sometimes (not always) you can soothe people by hearing them out and not getting defensive, but trying to appear reasonable and concerned with their satisfaction. (I'm not saying that you didn't do that - I'm just speaking generally here). I've read that doctors who have angry patients are finding that they can avoid many lawsuits just by letting the patients vent their frustrations, without taking a defensive posture in response... many patients just want to express their dissatisfaction, and once they feel they have been "heard" they are willing to move on.

To address your situation more specifically, what about putting a restriction in your ads that you will only sell to buyers with a good track record, all sales are final, no returns, and other self-protective language?

[Relic]

I sell a lot and so far I've dodged the bullet. When I sell something, I go over it with a fine-toothed comb and include anything I might find in the description, this was they cant come back and claim that I posted a misleading description. Sometimes if it's an item that I absolutely know will sell regardless, I may even describe it as being slightly worse than it really is.
I only had one problem, I had sold a guy a Sting bass and he claims that the adjustment on the neck was maxed out and it would cost him almost $300 for a new neck. To make a long story short, I refunded $100 to help alleviate the cost. I really couldn't confirm whether he was being truthful or not because I honestly never checked the neck, but I wanted to preserve my pos feedback.
The way ebay is set up nowadays it's totally a buyers dream. They can pull all sorts of crap with very little repercussion in the end. I liked it better how it used to be....

[michael_atw]

Oh, and also...not sure what section I put this thread under so if anyone feels free to move it go ahead. Whoops. Been up since 4 am and I'm dragging.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Never underestimate the d-baggery of the general public.



Everything you tried seems fair to me. IF...and that's only IF...the guy with the neck had contacted you immediately, something more could have been done IMO, even without pictures. But his story about waiting 3 weeks for a camera battery doesn't hold water to me. You should see if he "sells" stuff on Ebay. If so, did he post pictures of items he was selling during that time period where his camera was "unusable" ? Anyway, tell him how to steam out a ding and give him the $20 refund for his time. If he threatens to leave a neg again, simply tell him that you will happily put up a web page telling the story of the transaction (www.freewebs.com) and post the address as a "reply to feedback". Perhaps that will make him think about how he should have informed you immediately "IF" there were actual dings in the neck....(which I tend to doubt...I think it more likely that it got damaged at his place during those 3 weeks).

As for the gig bag... Yeah, the guy is being ridiculous, but to me, the $10 isn't worth the headache. I would simply refund the money, tell him to keep the bag, and just wash my hands of the situation. You've already spent too much time worrying and dealing with the transaction ...no need to draw it out over $10.

My $.02

Yeah, that's what I thought...I thought the guy probably nicked it at some point and the customer possibly didn't want it then. I didn't say it to this guy that I thought this until repeated insults to my integrity on his part...then I implied it may have happened that he nicked it. Not something I wanted to do but hey, at some point a seller has to let a buyer know what makes sense to him in these situations.

The concept of feedback sort of pisses me off, ESPECIALLY most recently with new policies from the last couple years. Ebay gauges so much on how well a buyer can bully a person into forking over money for a green dot and a good word.

With the gig bag, I'm just presenting the small refund and we'll see what happens. If it's gotta be a pain in my *** I'll just have to put aside the stubbornness and fork over the money. It sucks because stuff like that makes me not want to use ebay at all (of course, not many things make me want to use ebay)...but I'm a recent college grad with a part-time (albeit decent-paying) job who needs the money I make on ebay.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by K2000

My point is that sometimes (not always) you can soothe people by hearing them out and not getting defensive, but trying to appear reasonable and concerned with their satisfaction. (I'm not saying that you didn't do that - I'm just speaking generally here). I've read that doctors who have angry patients are finding that they can avoid many lawsuits just by letting the patients vent their frustrations, without taking a defensive posture in response... many patients just want to express their dissatisfaction, and once they feel they have been "heard" they are willing to move on.

To address your situation more specifically, what about putting a restriction in your ads that you will only sell to buyers with a good track record, all sales are final, no returns, and other self-protective language?

Yeah, I try as much as I can. It's hard because you don't know these people and the situations vary so greatly. I'm concerned with their satisfaction but I'm also concerned with not getting duped. Some people don't worry about a $10 or $20 scam but they happen so much on ebay and even that small amount is important for me. I can't see the product nor can I see the seller, so I do my best to get all the information down to understand the issue.

What cracks me up with this method is when buyers get angry and defensive with me. This guy with the neck has since the beginning been so defensive about everything and in a hurry-up mode. It makes me feel like he's got $$ < $$ in his eyes and finding (or making) that nick was a ticket to some quick money. Well, I never fold that easy on ebay (which gets me bad feedback but hey, I'm not gonna pay out profit for lies and gross exaggerations..) and it becomes an issue once or so a month.

The problem with the track record thing is, you can never tell bad buyers from good buyers anymore. All feedback for buyers is good feedback, and good feedback is almost as meaningless as a jaywalking law in Vegas. And who knows how many times some of these guys do things and easily get away with it?

All sales final and no returns don't even apply anymore. I mean, they do to a point but all the buyer has to do is file a dispute with ebay/paypal within (I believe) 45 days and all those "no returns" rules get thrown out.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Relic

I sell a lot and so far I've dodged the bullet. When I sell something, I go over it with a fine-toothed comb and include anything I might find in the description, this was they cant come back and claim that I posted a misleading description. Sometimes if it's an item that I absolutely know will sell regardless, I may even describe it as being slightly worse than it really is.
I only had one problem, I had sold a guy a Sting bass and he claims that the adjustment on the neck was maxed out and it would cost him almost $300 for a new neck. To make a long story short, I refunded $100 to help alleviate the cost. I really couldn't confirm whether he was being truthful or not because I honestly never checked the neck, but I wanted to preserve my pos feedback.
The way ebay is set up nowadays it's totally a buyers dream. They can pull all sorts of crap with very little repercussion in the end. I liked it better how it used to be....

Yeah, that's a good thing you do that. I try to...but I work a job in addition to this and by the time I get to listing/taking pictures I'm in a hurry. I'd like to take lots of pictures but every one is more fees...and I'm just too stubborn to give ebay any more than they are already stealing from me.

I try to not over-describe...or under-describe. Either one sucks...and either one can lead to damages in some form. It's a balancing act.

Did you ask him to send the bass back? How was his demeanor when you were exchanging emails?

Definitely. Ebay is a buyer's dream and it is ruining ebay slowly. The only reason its not quicker is because ebay is the Wal-Mart of online marketplaces and many people who use it are so clueless about the wolves that lurk around it.

[bongomania]

I used to sell on Ebay a lot. My feedback is 651, 100% positive, and almost half of that is sales. But I won't sell on Ebay anymore unless I absolutely have to. They have made it such a rotten experience for sellers that I am just not interested anymore in throwing the dice on whether the buyer will be legit, crazy, slow, or a PITA of any kind, and I'm sick of paying for the privilege of throwing those dice, especially since Ebay now sides with the buyer most of the time. Even if only one out of ten buyers is a jackass, that's more than I need to deal with. So far my ratio of good deals to PITA deals here on TB is more like 50:1.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

Yeah, that's a good thing you do that. I try to...but I work a job in addition to this and by the time I get to listing/taking pictures I'm in a hurry. I'd like to take lots of pictures but every one is more fees...and I'm just too stubborn to give ebay any more than they are already stealing from me.

I try to not over-describe...or under-describe. Either one sucks...and either one can lead to damages in some form. It's a balancing act.

Did you ask him to send the bass back? How was his demeanor when you were exchanging emails?

Definitely. Ebay is a buyer's dream and it is ruining ebay slowly. The only reason its not quicker is because ebay is the Wal-Mart of online marketplaces and many people who use it are so clueless about the wolves that lurk around it.

I work full time too and do the eBay thing on the side every now and then, but yeah I agree taking the pics, coming up with a description that covers all bases is all just a monumental pain in the arse. But I endure the major hassle to try to avoid just what you're experiencing. So far so good, I have over 100% pos feedback with over 400 transactions. I'm sure it wont stay that way forever but I'll try my best in the meantime...

The guy with the bass was a little nasty at first - "this is a piece of shiznit, what did you sell me?? blah blah blah" But I calmly explained that I was unaware of the problem, apologized and offered to take it back. I think that caught him by surprise, he was probably expecting me to fire back at him.
He kind of back-tracked and said that he likes the bass and wants to keep it but it will need a new neck which is going to run around $300 according to his "guitar tech". I told him that I can refund $100 or he can send the bass back. He took the $100 and thanked me.
In the end, I'm really wondering about it... he may have been right, I dunno, I never actually checked the neck but then again I didn't need to, it was straight as an arrow and had great action. I'm really still left wondering why he claims to have needed a new neck when this one, even if bad, could still have simply been fixed. Who knows, he could have scammed me for all I know.

Ebay still has it's merits I guess. I can still go on there and search for some really odd stuff and actually find it, but as for a seller... it's tough these days.