Serious question-why do antidepressants give you thoughts of suicide?

[Stinsok]

Again, serious. I don't know much about them but hearing the side effects listed on commercials makes me wonder.

[spade2you]

What they teach ya in school is that this is basically a warning because some with depression are suicidal, but too depressed to do anything about it. While an antidrepressant can help with the depression, sometimes it causes people to have enough energy to do something with their suicidal thoughts.

[Fridge123]

I don't believe spades description - but I don't know what the real explanation is.

[RosieB]

I don't know why anti-depressants have this effect on people, but I haven't found one I can take yet without this happening. Some just cause me varying degrees of worse depression, and others cause me varying degrees of suicidal thoughts. Prozac being the worst I've tried for suicidal thoughts. They all also cause me some degree of forgetfulness and inability to focus. But then, I tend to react oddly, mentally, to birth control and many antibiotics, too.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Fridge123

I don't believe spades description

Contact my professors. They were so rude as to make me know it for a test.

[Chef FourString]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Contact my professors. They were so rude as to make me know it for a test.

+1 good rebuttal

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by Fridge123

I don't believe spades description - but I don't know what the real explanation is.

You can not believe it all you want, it's an absolutely factual and true answer. When someone with serious depression first gets on medication, it's the absolute most dangerous time as far as lethality. When they begin to recover somewhat, energy level is up, but severe depression is still present.

[bassteban]

As an aside, I find it incredibly disturbing that for most drug commercials(as if that's not weird enough to begin with)the side effect warning more often than not is FAR longer than the list of benefit(s).

*Yeah, I lost the weight/beat the depression/my skin cleared up, but now I have 3 heads, six breasts & an extra set of male & female genitalia. Gotta go, time to go kill myself!*

[spade2you]

To the comment that Prozac caused suicidal thoughts, there's a mix of science, art, luck, and voodoo finding the right meds for each patient. The same approach could be perfect for one patient and could yield very bad results for another. Finding the right med(s) and dosages can be pretty challenging and I don't envy the psych MDs.

[RosieB]

Originally Posted by spade2you

What they teach ya in school is that this is basically a warning because some with depression are suicidal, but too depressed to do anything about it. While an antidrepressant can help with the depression, sometimes it causes people to have enough energy to do something with their suicidal thoughts.

That might be completely accurate in some situations. But I know in my case the anti-depressants actually magnified my symptoms rather than decreasing them, and magnified them to the degree that I started to have suicidal thoughts that weren't present initially. I am definitely not a suicidal type of person and have been much more depressed in the past (without anti-depressants) without entertaining any kind of suicidal thoughts.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I think that there is probably a lot of validity to that statement. It certainly makes sense. But my personal experience leads me to believe that anti-depressants can also cause worse depression and/or suicidal thoughts in some people.

[RosieB]

Originally Posted by spade2you

To the comment that Prozac caused suicidal thoughts, there's a mix of science, art, luck, and voodoo finding the right meds for each patient. The same approach could be perfect for one patient and could yield very bad results for another. Finding the right med(s) and dosages can be pretty challenging and I don't envy the psych MDs.

+1

[kesslari]

Spade is spot on - I used to work in the field (Licensed psychotherapist).
There is a point for people with Major Depression where they just don't have the energy to attempt suicide - they can "wish they were dead" but don't have the ability to act on it.
With or without anti-depressants, for those people the most dangerous time is when they first start to feel better - they still have depressed (and potentially suicidal) thoughts but have more energy and can act on them.

Odd but true.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by spade2you

What they teach ya in school is that this is basically a warning because some with depression are suicidal, but too depressed to do anything about it. While an antidrepressant can help with the depression, sometimes it causes people to have enough energy to do something with their suicidal thoughts.

The question is why do they increase "suicidal thoughts" not why are there more suicides.

'Antidepressants increase suicidal thoughts in under-25s' - Health News, Health & Families - The Independent

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by RosieB

That might be completely accurate in some situations. But I know in my case the anti-depressants actually magnified my symptoms rather than decreasing them, and magnified them to the degree that I started to have suicidal thoughts that weren't present initially. I am definitely not a suicidal type of person and have been much more depressed in the past (without anti-depressants) without entertaining any kind of suicidal thoughts.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I think that there is probably a lot of validity to that statement. It certainly makes sense. But my personal experience leads me to believe that anti-depressants can also cause worse depression and/or suicidal thoughts in some people.

I won't argue that Prozac caused it for you, but there are so many different antidepressants and sub-classes to really apply that thought to all meds in general. That's before you start even factoring in the bi-polar aspects of treatment strategies, too.

I'm not trying to dodge anything, but it's super complex and really ends up being tailored to individual patients. It's good when we can get the right meds and doses ASAP, but sometimes medications themselves can cause episodes and some patients never really find a combination that works for them.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

The question is why do they increase "suicidal thoughts" not why are there more suicides.

Not sure if there is anyone who can answer why antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts in some patients.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Not sure if there is anyone who can answer why antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts in some patients.

That's what the OP is trying to find out. It could be the law of unintended consequences at work or better yet not enough rigorous science behind why that's happening. We do however know that something in the drug in conjunction with something in the person is giving rise to these thoughts and it seems to be age related as indicated by the link that I posted.

[Linas]

Originally Posted by kesslari

Spade is spot on - I used to work in the field (Licensed psychotherapist).
There is a point for people with Major Depression where they just don't have the energy to attempt suicide - they can "wish they were dead" but don't have the ability to act on it.
With or without anti-depressants, for those people the most dangerous time is when they first start to feel better - they still have depressed (and potentially suicidal) thoughts but have more energy and can act on them.

Odd but true.

I was a psychology major, and this is what I learned as well.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

That's what the OP is trying to find out. It could be the law of unintended consequences at work or better yet not enough rigorous science behind why that's happening. We do however know that something in the drug in conjunction with something in the person is giving rise to these thoughts and it seems to be age related as indicated by the link that I posted.

The study notes that it's there, but on a fundamental level, it doesn't really answer why Celexa cause it in patient X while Prozac causes it in patient Y. Flip the meds around and you get a different result. Why?

We simply don't have the luxury of constantly scanning patients' brains and testing this against other meds. On a slightly different note, we don't always understand the mechanisms 100% on some meds.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by spade2you

The study notes that it's there, but on a fundamental level, it doesn't really answer why Celexa cause it in patient X while Prozac causes it in patient Y. Flip the meds around and you get a different result. Why?

Why? The answer may be that the two people not only aren't the same genetically, they probably don't even live the same lifestyle, have the same diet, have the same perceptions, beliefs, etc, etc, etc.

We simply don't have the luxury of constantly scanning patients' brains and testing this against other meds. On a slightly different note, we don't always understand the mechanisms 100% on some meds.

Sounds like an excuse and maybe there are other ways to find this information out that have yet to be discovered, though it sounds like the experiment is already under way.

[Bongolation]

Read Robert Whitaker's books on psychiatry and psychiatric drugs, particularly Anatomy of an Epidemic.

Your library should have it.

It will explain the inefficacy and dangers of antidepressants along with the clinical proofs of this.

Nothing else in this thread will help you understand your answer like reading this book will.