Should I be with her

[chuck norriss]

Originally Posted by pacojas

i can't resist!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hixw6...e_gdata_player

Chapell's great. Where is he now?

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I respect folks right to live the way they please (for the most part anyway) but I fail to see the reasoning behind frequent sex being immoral. Degrading I can somewhat understand because that's a personal judgement. Only an individual can say how something affects them but our buddy above said that it's immoral, which has much wider reaching implications. That's what I want an explanation for.

I never said frequent sex was immoral, in fact, I'm all for sex, the more sex the better. I even joke with my wife (who has now gone through "the change") that we must have worn it out. Sex makes relationships stronger. You'll note that I said relationships and not just marriage. If you are brought to love another person with all of your heart that is a serious relationship, go at it like bunnies.

I am talking about rutting like dogs. Sex is about more than physical pleasure, more than ego driven goals, more than babies or no babies, it is about emotional intimacy with another human being. I don't think there is anything more sacred than that and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

When someone whores around they are just saying they have no respect for themselves. That the deeper things of sex, and therfore life, don't matter or don't exist for them. I'm OK with that, though I feel sorry for them. No judgement, just compassion for someone I think has missed something important in life.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I disagree. Being sexually loose does imply a character defect.

Wow.

That's DEEEEEEEEEP!

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I never said frequent sex was immoral, in fact, I'm all for sex, the more sex the better. I even joke with my wife (who has now gone through "the change") that we must have worn it out. Sex makes relationships stronger. You'll note that I said relationships and not just marriage. If you are brought to love another person with all of your heart that is a serious relationship, go at it like bunnies.

I am talking about rutting like dogs. Sex is about more than physical pleasure, more than ego driven goals, more than babies or no babies, it is about emotional intimacy with another human being. I don't think there is anything more sacred than that and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

When someone whores around they are just saying they have no respect for themselves. That the deeper things of sex, and therfore life, don't matter or don't exist for them. I'm OK with that, though I feel sorry for them. No judgement, just compassion for someone I think has missed something important in life.

I thought as much. Which isn't to say "HA! I HAVE BEEN VINDICATED!" I just mean that you come from a perspective that I can't relate to at all. I guess the best way to put it is that it's something beyond my understanding.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I thought as much. Which isn't to say "HA! I HAVE BEEN VINDICATED!" I just mean that you come from a perspective that I can't relate to at all. I guess the best way to put it is that it's something beyond my understanding.

I'm interested, what is your prospective? What about mine is foreign to you?

[chuck norriss]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I never said frequent sex was immoral, in fact, I'm all for sex, the more sex the better. I even joke with my wife (who has now gone through "the change") that we must have worn it out. Sex makes relationships stronger. You'll note that I said relationships and not just marriage. If you are brought to love another person with all of your heart that is a serious relationship, go at it like bunnies.

I am talking about rutting like dogs. Sex is about more than physical pleasure, more than ego driven goals, more than babies or no babies, it is about emotional intimacy with another human being. I don't think there is anything more sacred than that and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

When someone whores around they are just saying they have no respect for themselves. That the deeper things of sex, and therfore life, don't matter or don't exist for them. I'm OK with that, though I feel sorry for them. No judgement, just compassion for someone I think has missed something important in life.

I agree but I'm not critical. Some people take sex very seriously & it means the world to them. Others are users; it means nothing. Can't stop people from sexing. What are you going to do.
I want a 5-string.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Wow.

That's DEEEEEEEEEP!

Lol.
So's my well, cold too.

[chuck norriss]

Actually I don't agree with the last part re: respect. Maybe they just want to do it.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I'm interested, what is your prospective? What about mine is foreign to you?

To me sex is just a verb. It's something you do. It doesn't actually mean or represent anything in particular. I don't assign any moral value to the act itself.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

I agree but I'm not critical. Some people take sex very seriously & it means the world to them. Others are users; it means nothing. Can't stop people from sexing. What are you going to do.
I want a 5-string.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from dong anything they like. I just think people should be honest and call a behavior what it is. If someone needs to sugar-coat something so they feel better about it's that's not reality, that's delusion. I have done all sorts of immoral things in my life, probably more than most here, but I have no delusions, as fun as they were, they were immoral. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't do what I did, that's up to them. Just don't try to justify those actions with situational morality or any other such baloney. I would guess most who engage in immoral actions, do so willingly with full knowledge of what they do; I know I did.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

To me sex is just a verb. It's something you do. It doesn't actually mean or represent anything in particular. I don't assign any moral value to the act itself.

We all define our reality for ourselves, really. I feel there is more than the animal nature to sex. Don't get me wrong, love that animal nature, but for me there's more. If there isn't for you, that makes me sad.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Scott1

We all define our reality for ourselves, really. I feel there is more than the animal nature to sex. Don't get me wrong, love that animal nature, but for me there's more. If there isn't for you, that makes me sad.

Don't be. I like my reality just fine.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Why do I find her incredibly sexy?

[UncleFluffy]

Originally Posted by Scott1

We all define our reality for ourselves, really. I feel there is more than the animal nature to sex. Don't get me wrong, love that animal nature, but for me there's more.

Yes. There is, on many different levels. No disagreement here.

But why is celebrating the joys of the animal nature wrong? To me, that's like saying "filet mignon is better than a cheeseburger, so people who enjoy the occasional cheeseburger are immoral"

It might even be - like cheeseburgers - unhealthy, but the people concerned are the owners of their bodies and are free to do with them as they will.

(One could even claim that making public moral pronouncements about the morality of what consenting adults do with their own bodies is itself immoral. There's a lot of harm can be placed at shame's door )

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by Scott1

So, with that clarification, please tell me of the philosophies and ethical doctrines to which you refer, and how my statement is rebutted by them.

Existentialism of the Sartre variety
Nihilism
Even Wiccan doctrine

All provide wide opportunity for moral codes and deny positivist notions of morality having a universal essence. I'm actually in agreement with you that morals and ethics exist, but if I'm reading you correctly, you're positing that morals are universal. As you can probably gather, I'm a social constructionist, so I'm going to posit that morals are ultimately social constructions and are largely contingent upon the socio-historical and cultural mores in which they are fashioned. For instance, Victorian notions of sexual values are vastly different when compared to modern day notions of sexual values. But I apologize if I misinterpreted. And no need for the snarky disclaimer. I'm often snarky enough for everyone.

Edit: Oops, realized that I mentioned non-Western teaching in my original post, of which, the first two examples are Western. Confucius teaching is quite different than a lot of Western thinking.

[TOOL460002]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Why do I find her incredibly sexy?

Because you're into necrophilia? Then again, if you wipe the blood off, get some dental work, a little make-up, and... never mind. No. You're a sick, sick man you are.

[knumbskull]

i missed this, what happened? did it end in a mushroom cloud of heartbreak & STDs?

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Scott1

We all define our reality for ourselves, really. I feel there is more than the animal nature to sex. Don't get me wrong, love that animal nature, but for me there's more. If there isn't for you, that makes me sad.

Have there been instances where, to me, sex has been nothing more than fufilling a physical need? Yes.

Does that mean that I don't have deeper emotional ties with some people when having sex? No.

It's why you could throw in a distinction between having sex and making love. Mechanically the same thing, emotionally the latter is deeper (giggity).

[hrodbert696]

Of course sex is a moral issue. Everything you do is a moral issue. Every time you decide to do X rather than Y, you are making a judgment that X is better than Y. That's a moral judgment.

But not all moral issues have the same gravity. Some we place on a sliding scale of values - all other things being equal, I prefer X to Y, but it's negotiable and some factors might shift my judgment. Others we put on the level of absolute right and wrong - Thou shalt X, thou shalt not Y.

The thing about sex is that it's very rare for "all other things to be equal," even if we put the sex act itself on a sliding value scale rather than an absolute. Sex is strong stuff, it has the potential to create life, and so we're designed to have very powerful emotions in response to it. If it were no more intense of an experience than eating a cheeseburger, we wouldn't bother with sex, we'd just eat cheeseburgers - way less involvement and hassle.

So, for the (long-gone) OP's situation, there definitely ARE moral factors involved, both for himself and for others. What will having sex do to his (and her) emotions, relationships, etc? Not everyone can just do it and walk away, and the rest of the world is probably justified and having its judgments of those who can.

The girl told him that she cheats - not that she invited him to an open friends-with-benefits relationship or anything, but that she cheats. I would take that to mean that she gets emotionally involved and promises to be monogamous, then breaks the promise. Maybe she doesn't even approve of her own behavior. If they want to go open-relationship, that's one thing, but doesn't sound like that's what's at stake here.

[Tat2dHeart]

I think, given his last post and the fact that he's been silent since, that the OP has made up his mind that she's hot enough to account for all the kinds of crazy she's gonna heap on him and for his broken heart and busted bank account. And if that kind of hot is what is important to him, the more power to him. If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.