Should MORE prison sentences be given in courts?

[Fassa Albrecht]

There's been some debate in the British media about prison sentences and how a lot of violent offences, including some rapes, sexual assaults and drug offences see the offender given community or non-jail punishments. The Daily Mail (right-wing paper) had some statistic about how 50 violent offenses a day were committed by people who should be in jail.

So I'm wondering what the good men of TB think? Should there be more prison sentences given out in court? Or do you think there's other options to prison?

[kanonfodr]

What about the Women of TB? Or the Evil B***ards of TB?

I don't know about UK Prisons, but American prisons aren't that bad so I would prefer more executions *flame suit on*.

Peace,
Greg

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by kanonfodr

What about the Women of TB? Or the Evil B***ards of TB?

I don't know about UK Prisons, but American prisons aren't that bad so I would prefer more executions *flame suit on*.

Peace,
Greg

I assume everyone on TB to be male unless I am told otherwise.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Two things to put out here:

A) Never take anything the Daily Mail says seriously. If you get bored of the real thing, use this website : Daily Mail-o-matic | qwghlm.co.uk , I'm pretty sure it's what the DM use half the time . . .

B) Yes, I think there should be. I know in my hometown there were a number of families who should have been serving long sentances, but tended to get away with short ones (the worst being 18 months, for what should have been considered burglary, kidnap and manslaughter).

I live about a mile away from the second largest prison in Scotland (trivia)


I would add, that I wouldn't want our system to end up like the US's. Many dodgy prisons run by private companies, highest incarcerated rate (per capita) in the world.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Two things to put out here:

A) Never take anything the Daily Mail says seriously. If you get bored of the real thing, use this website : Daily Mail-o-matic | qwghlm.co.uk , I'm pretty sure it's what the DM use half the time . . .

Haha that's funny!

B) Yes, I think there should be. I know in my hometown there were a number of families who should have been serving long sentances, but tended to get away with short ones (the worst being 18 months, for what should have been considered burglary, kidnap and manslaughter).

I'm inclined to agree, as the situation here is similar. Plus, building more prisons means more jobs both building the building and also running it.

I live about a mile away from the second largest prison in Scotland (trivia)

I used to live close to the North-East's biggest women's prison.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

I'm inclined to agree, as the situation here is similar. Plus, building more prisons means more jobs both building the building and also running it.

But then the money comes from government, and by government, I mean us, to pay for it. But I guess there is no way around it.

Unless we can find another island somewhere to start shipping people again

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

But then the money comes from government, and by government, I mean us, to pay for it. But I guess there is no way around it.

Unless we can find another island somewhere to start shipping people again

Errrr....the Antarctic?

Actually, no that's a bad idea, the penguins need some peace.

And I am NOT trying to start an argument, but surely running more prisons is far more cost-effective than what's happening at present? Someone in prison generally isn't committing a crime, which in turn means they're not wasting public money in probation officers/police time etc.?

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Send them to the Artic;

A) Closer

B) Polar Bears



I'm not sure to be honest, the cost of keeping prisoners is pretty high. But that'll be, in part, due to them getting everything under the sun while they are in there. There are a lot of folk who don't care about serving in prison because their lifestyle in there is better than it is outside.

Regardless, it's worth it to have them locked away.

[::::BASSIST::::]

The prison system in the US is a multi-million if not Billion dollar industry. Many of the prisons are run by private, for profit, corporations capitalizing on what amounts to slave labour. There are more people in prison in the US (per capita) than any other country in the world. Yet their largest cities still have very high crime rates.

So no, the prison system isnt working. I have a diploma of associate and criminology and find the topic fascinating.

Essentially, my understanding is that crime will decrease when wealth is more equally distributed.

[kanonfodr]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Essentially, my understanding is that crime will decrease when wealth is more equally distributed.

Crime will also decrease when we start putting more criminals away. Permanently.

Peace,
Greg

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Send them to the Artic;

A) Closer

B) Polar Bears

lol!

I'm not sure to be honest, the cost of keeping prisoners is pretty high. But that'll be, in part, due to them getting everything under the sun while they are in there. There are a lot of folk who don't care about serving in prison because their lifestyle in there is better than it is outside.

Regardless, it's worth it to have them locked away.

Prison life isn't as easy as what some people would believe. Yes, you may have access to some things people would consider luxuries, but then balance it out with the fact that you're going to do the same thing, day after day, in the same building, being told what you can and can't do by someone else, being constantly watched and surveilled. In some cases, you're going to spend anything up to 23 hours a day in that tiny little cell.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Hell, the night I spent in Pilgrim Street was bad enough.

[Metal Matt]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

The prison system in the US is a multi-million if not Billion dollar industry. Many of the prisons are run by private, for profit, corporations capitalizing on what amounts to slave labour. There are more people in prison in the US (per capita) than any other country in the world. Yet their largest cities still have very high crime rates.

So no, the prison system isnt working. I have a diploma of associate and criminology and find the topic fascinating.

Essentially, my understanding is that crime will decrease when wealth is more equally distributed.

Yup. Crime isn't going to stop by simply throwing more people in prison. You need to address the economic conditions that crime arises from, otherwise nothing's going to change.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by kanonfodr

Crime will also decrease when we start putting more criminals away. Permanently.

Peace,
Greg

Nope. Hasnt worked for the previous 100 years, can't see why it would change now.

[::::BASSIST::::]

I remember reading this Sci-fi story, where upon being found guilty in the court the sentence would be carried out immediately.

The sentence would be electric shock. The more serious the crime the greater the intensity and length of the shock. Once the "sentence" has been carried out the criminal is set free. I am NOT saying I am in favour of this but it is an interesting concept. It would save the justice system a TON of money.

It wouldnt have to be a shock, maybe another alternative that would be painful, but not lethal.

I wonder what kind of effect that would have as a deterrent and how it would effect crime levels?

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Nope. Hasnt worked for the previous 100 years, can't see why it would change now.

I would be willing to argue that this is wrong. Yes, the prison population has gone up, but for the UK the number of offences for which you can be imprisoned has also risen.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

I would be willing to argue that this is wrong. Yes, the prison population has gone up, but for the UK the number of offences for which you can be imprisoned has also risen.

What I am saying Fassa is that putting more people in prison does not solve the problem of crime.

One has to address the underlying reasons as to why crime happens in order reduce it.

Prison as a deterrent doesnt work... not even capital punishment. If it did work, people would not murder. The one thing these actions do though, is protect society from that particular individual criminal.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

Prison life isn't as easy as what some people would believe. Yes, you may have access to some things people would consider luxuries, but then balance it out with the fact that you're going to do the same thing, day after day, in the same building, being told what you can and can't do by someone else, being constantly watched and surveilled. In some cases, you're going to spend anything up to 23 hours a day in that tiny little cell.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Hell, the night I spent in Pilgrim Street was bad enough.

Not nice, but often nicer than what some have at home.

Some only want those luxuries (or heroin).

I've even overheard local scum big-ing up the fact they are going to prison to (what I presume was) their child.

[The Crusader]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Essentially, my understanding is that crime will decrease when wealth is more equally distributed.

you mean when people take advantage of opportunities that they are given to create their own wealth instead of living off of others?

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by The Crusader

you mean when people take advantage of opportunities that they are given to create their own wealth instead of living off of others?

We all live off me another to some extent.

[LiquidMidnight]

I've never been to prison and I'm not a criminologist, but from the people I've talked to who have been to prison and work in prisons, it's not quite the vacation that some of you are making it out to be. Never mind the constant surveillance and loss of freedom, you have to constantly watch your back. Not everyone who goes to prison is a bad person - and I think it's important to remember that - but there are definitely some pretty scummy people who are locked up.

From what I've been told by people who have been there, county jail is no picnic either.

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Prison as a deterrent doesnt work... not even capital punishment. If it did work, people would not murder. The one thing these actions do though, is protect society from that particular individual criminal.

Well, the argument could be made that prison penalties do reduce what would have been murders had there been no repercussions, but realistically, neither claim is completely falsifiable due to the number of confounds, as well as the ethical dilemma of creating a society without punishments for murder just to test the hypothesis. You could run a controlled study at the micro level looking at how well punishment acts as behavioral modification, but then you run into the issue that micro behavior does not always equal macro behavior.

Of course, a lot of good theory, such as strain theory, does lend credence to the argument that stopping the cause of crime may be more effective than the punishment of crime. Unfortunately, people seem to dislike social programs (which are often ill-conceived due to political influence), and in my experience, there's this belief of complete human agency that totally discounts the power of socialization. But to go any further than that, I would probably be going dangerously close to the "no politics in OT" line.