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  #1  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:57 AM
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Should parents lose custody of super-obese kids?

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Should parents lose custody of super-obese kids? - Healthy Living on Shine

By LINDSEY TANNER - AP Medical Writer

CHICAGO (AP) — Should parents of extremely obese children lose custody for not controlling their kids' weight? A provocative commentary in one of the nation's most distinguished medical journals argues yes, and its authors are joining a quiet chorus of advocates who say the government should be allowed to intervene in extreme cases.

It has happened a few times in the U.S., and the opinion piece in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association says putting children temporarily in foster care is in some cases more ethical than obesity surgery.

Dr. David Ludwig, an obesity specialist at Harvard-affiliated Children's Hospital Boston, said the point isn't to blame parents, but rather to act in children's best interest and get them help that for whatever reason their parents can't provide.

State intervention "ideally will support not just the child but the whole family, with the goal of reuniting child and family as soon as possible. That may require instruction on parenting," said Ludwig, who wrote the article with Lindsey Murtagh, a lawyer and a researcher at Harvard's School of Public Health.

"Despite the discomfort posed by state intervention, it may sometimes be necessary to protect a child," Murtagh said.

But University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Art Caplan said he worries that the debate risks putting too much blame on parents. Obese children are victims of advertising, marketing, peer pressure and bullying — things a parent can't control, he said.

"If you're going to change a child's weight, you're going to have to change all of them," Caplan said.

Roughly 2 million U.S. children are extremely obese. Most are not in imminent danger, Ludwig said. But some have obesity-related conditions such as Type 2 diabetes, breathing difficulties and liver problems that could kill them by age 30. It is these kids for whom state intervention, including education, parent training, and temporary protective custody in the most extreme cases, should be considered, Ludwig said.

Related: Factors that increase a child's risk of becoming overweight

While some doctors promote weight-loss surgery for severely obese teens, Ludwig said it hasn't been used for very long in adolescents and can have serious, sometimes life-threatening complications.

"We don't know the long-term safety and effectiveness of these procedures done at an early age," he said.

Ludwig said he starting thinking about the issue after a 90-pound 3-year-old girl came to his obesity clinic several years ago. Her parents had physical disabilities, little money and difficulty controlling her weight. Last year, at age 12, she weighed 400 pounds and had developed diabetes, cholesterol problems, high blood pressure and sleep apnea.

"Out of medical concern, the state placed this girl in foster care, where she simply received three balanced meals a day and a snack or two and moderate physical activity," he said. After a year, she lost 130 pounds. Though she is still obese, her diabetes and apnea disappeared; she remains in foster care, he said.

In a commentary in the medical journal BMJ last year, London pediatrician Dr. Russell Viner and colleagues said obesity was a factor in several child protection cases in Britain. They argued that child protection services should be considered if parents are neglectful or actively reject efforts to control an extremely obese child's weight.

A 2009 opinion article in Pediatrics made similar arguments. Its authors said temporary removal from the home would be warranted "when all reasonable alternative options have been exhausted."

That piece discussed a 440-pound 16-year-old girl who developed breathing problems from excess weight and nearly died at a University of Wisconsin hospital. Doctors discussed whether to report her family for neglect. But they didn't need to, because her medical crisis "was a wake-up call" for her family, and the girl ended up losing about 100 pounds, said co-author Dr. Norman Fost, a medical ethicist at the university's Madison campus.

How to tell if your child is at risk for obesity

State intervention in obesity "doesn't necessarily involve new legal requirements," Ludwig said. Health care providers are required to report children who are at immediate risk, and that can be for a variety of reasons, including neglect, abuse and what doctors call "failure to thrive." That's when children are severely underweight.

Jerri Gray, a Greenville, S.C., single mother who lost custody of her 555-pound 14-year-old son two years ago, said authorities don't understand the challenges families may face in trying to control their kids' weight.

"I was always working two jobs so we wouldn't end up living in ghettos," Gray said. She said she often didn't have time to cook, so she would buy her son fast food. She said she asked doctors for help for her son's big appetite but was accused of neglect.

Her sister has custody of the boy, now 16. The sister has the money to help him with a special diet and exercise, and the boy has lost more than 200 pounds, Gray said.

"Even though good has come out of this as far as him losing weight, he told me just last week, 'Mommy, I want to be back with you so bad.' They've done damage by pulling us apart," Gray said.

Stormy Bradley, an Atlanta mother whose overweight 14-year-old daughter is participating in a Georgia advocacy group's "Stop Childhood Obesity" campaign, said she sympathizes with families facing legal action because of their kids' weight.

Healthier food often costs more, and trying to monitor kids' weight can be difficult, especially when they reach their teens and shun parental control, Bradley said. But taking youngsters away from their parents "definitely seems too extreme," she said.

Dr. Lainie Ross, a medical ethicist at the University of Chicago, said: "There's a stigma with state intervention. We just have to do it with caution and humility and make sure we really can say that our interventions are going to do more good than harm."

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  #2  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:18 AM
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"We don't want to blame the parents..."

This is a great example of BS feel-goodery. The person responsible for the kid being super obese is the parent. Parenting is a series of active decisions, not pandering to a kid's every whim, including constant consumption of fast food.

And no, eating healthy is not particularly expensive. Make a sacrifice here and there and you'll be surprised at how much money you have laying around. Two examples: Cable TV @ ~$100/month, cell phones with data plans ~$70/month or more. Switch to Netflix and a pay-as-you-go phone, and I just saved you ~$132/month.
  #3  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:09 AM
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People really need to wake up and realize that babies are not a fashion accessory.

If someone thinks that working 2 jobs to keep from living in the ghetto is an excuse for having an obese kid, that person shouldn't have had a child in the first place.
  #4  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:33 AM
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that person shouldn't have had a child in the first place.
Isn't that a bit harsh?
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:52 AM
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Isn't that a bit harsh?
No. I agree. If the child's parents exercise their "rights" to feed their child to death, then the state has the right to protect that child.

I have been vocal about this on another link.

Companies to curb ads for unhealthy food directed at kids.

I do think the INITIAL responsibility is the parents. Many parents are responsible. Many are not.

If a parent put a gun to a child's head and pulled the trigger, that parent would be guilty of murder. Why should we treat a parent any differently for killing the child by allowing and helping him or her to eat themselves to death?

Of course this is a drastic example, however the obesity problem with the children of this country is drastic also, to say the least.

There are parents out there that do the right thing every day. You never hear about them. You always hear about the slackers and irresponsible parents doing the most stupid things to their children.

So I say this to parents that take the time and effort to raise OUR children correctly;


Thank You.

You truly are a better person than me and I appreciate your responsibility and sacrifice.
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Last edited by Quickie : 07-15-2011 at 08:55 AM.
  #6  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:10 AM
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To quote a line from the article.

"Roughly 2 million U.S. children are extremely obese. Most are not in imminent danger, Ludwig said. But some have obesity-related conditions such as Type 2 diabetes, breathing difficulties and liver problems that could kill them by age 30. It is these kids for whom state intervention, including education, parent training, and temporary protective custody in the most extreme cases, should be considered, Ludwig said."

If they are not in imminent dange, then I see no reason for the state to be able to take the kids away. In extreme cases where the kid runs the risk of dropping dead on the spot, then perhaps I can agree with removing the kids from that environment. But if most are in no danger until their adult life then I cannot get behind removing them from their families. It's not right to punish the parents for something that could happen when they're 30. Especially when you consider that when the kid turns 18 they are adults and able to make their own choices.


Also, once these kids reach a certain age, it should also be their responsibility to exercise portion control, eat that salad when offered McDonalds, etc etc. I get that 6 year olds and what not won't usually do that, but there is no excuse for them not doing it once they reach a certain age. IE, the 400 lb 16 year old girl.

Just because a kid is obese does not mean they are in an overall unhealthy environment that should warrant their removal from the family either. The long term psychological ramifications of removing the kid could be far worse than their obesity.
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Last edited by cassanova : 07-15-2011 at 09:18 AM.
  #7  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:13 AM
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Rather than take the child, enroll the entire family in nutrition and physical education classes. Or send Jamie Oliver over to stay with them.

-Mike
  #8  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:21 AM
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Rather than take the child, enroll the entire family in nutrition and physical education classes. Or send Jamie Oliver over to stay with them.

-Mike
Good idea on enrolling the entire family in nutrition and physical education courses. That's definitely something I could support. But, that would cost money and the state and privatized correctional facilities wouldn't make any on it.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:25 AM
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Or send Jamie Oliver over to stay with them.

-Mike
i thought 'cruel and unusual' punishment was illegal?

  #10  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:30 AM
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No, it's their right to steer them down any path the parents choose...

However...

One fundamental problem with U.S. public schools is that certain parents (for whatever reason) do not instill the importance of an education in their children.

One fundamental problem with many parents in the world is not educating themselves and their children to eat-not only for survival, but eating right for good health + a long life. Perhaps it's not the education that is lacking, but applying it!
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:35 AM
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States don't have enough officers to patrol the streets, jail space to house criminals, state workers to correctly implement child protective services and they think this will fly? Nah, it's just words. There is no way this could be funded and/or carried out.

I work hand in hand with agencies that are reliant on the government for funding in the human services and rehabilitation field. Trust me, this has ZERO chance to move forward.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:47 AM
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How about enroll yourself and your kids into nutrition classes OR ELSE we will take your kids.

Intentionally doing anything to your kids which results in harm, or in extreme cases death, is abuse IMO.
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MJ5150
Rather than take the child, enroll the entire family in nutrition and physical education classes. Or send Jamie Oliver over to stay with them.

-Mike
I fully agree better education in nutrition and fitness are needed.
But nutrition science has not been a required course in most medical schools, and is generally a new science. There are very few qualified experts in the field. What we have instead is flawed so-called common sense that makes us believe such things as eating fat makes us fat.

I think the problem is much bigger than bad parenting. Fortunately the food pyramid is now history, as it had no basis in actual nutrition.
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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It kills me to see how overcomplicated this whole obesity issue becomes. There is just no excuse when the answer is so simple.

STOP EATING!

Temperance: Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation.
- Ben Franklin

You don't need money, time, or education to stop eating. Just show a little restraint. Thin people do it every day. Heck, you can eat fast food and junk and still be thin (although you may have other nutritional issues), just dont eat so much.

I've got no problem with people overfeeding their kids. That's just evolution thinning the gene pool. A lot of things people choose to do can shorten their life. Gotta love that freedom.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:32 AM
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Good idea on enrolling the entire family in nutrition and physical education courses. That's definitely something I could support. But, that would cost money and the state and privatized correctional facilities wouldn't make any on it.
The original idea posted in the article would also cost money (more money it seems) to enact what it is proposing.

Quote:
State intervention "ideally will support not just the child but the whole family, with the goal of reuniting child and family as soon as possible. That may require instruction on parenting," said Ludwig
Mike's proposal seems to be a little on par with this, only without removing the child from the family in the first place. To me, that sounds like a more effective, less costly plan of action.
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  #16  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by zac2944

I've got no problem with people overfeeding their kids. That's just evolution thinning the gene pool. A lot of things people choose to do can shorten their life. Gotta love that freedom.
That's not evolution thinning the gene pool. They will all certainly survive to reproductive age. It is however, a decrease in the overall fitness of our society, a burden on our medical system, and will harm our overall output levels.

We're all tied together. Neglect is neglect whether it comes from failure to care for immediate needs or more long term ones.
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:49 PM
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I back it. As some of you might have realized by now, I'm a big proponent of strong (not big! There's a difference!) government. I think that a proper government has a responsibility to its citizens to protect them as best it can. I think that in many cases, that includes protecting them from themselves and from their families.

Children are taken by the state for many reasons in the US and Canada. One of those reasons is emotional abuse, isn't it?

Doesn't making a child weigh >400 pounds by age 14 - whether by neglect, poor judgement, or sheer stupidity - constitute emotional abuse, when you think of what that child must be going through at school, on the street, in the movie theatres?
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
That's not evolution thinning the gene pool. They will all certainly survive to reproductive age. It is however, a decrease in the overall fitness of our society, a burden on our medical system, and will harm our overall output levels.

We're all tied together. Neglect is neglect whether it comes from failure to care for immediate needs or more long term ones.
They might make it to a reproductive age, but that no way assures us that they'll actually have sex with anyone besides their own hand
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:14 PM
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So, if I am an irresponable/derelict parent and don't want my kids, all I have to do is make them obese and govt. will swoop in and take them from me? Right on govt.! Free at last, free at last. At least I don't have to kill them outright so I can have partytime like a certain Florida resident. Thanks govt.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
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How about this - If your kid becomes obese then you, by law, have to eat your kid.

Seems like the only logical explanation to me.
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I'm not sure Maki could do better. That's high praise indeed.
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