Should there be academic freedom in high school's ?

[MAJOR METAL]

Should there be academic freedom in high school's ? After comming out of University to work with high school students its a bit of a shock as to how regulated your words have to be while instructing students of this level. Even the ability to allow students to develop arguments and opinions of issue that pertain to them in the class room is even a source of contention between teacher and administrator.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Freedom to a degree, yes. But at the end of the day, they still need to be taught what they need to pass the material of the course.

[hbarcat]

There is a landmark court case that has a lot to do with the amount of freedom students have to think or act as they wish (when this may be contrary to the wishes of teachers, administrators or other students) in public high schools.

Google:
Tinker v. Des Moines

This may not be exactly what you had in mind with your question, but it is relevant to some degree as the majority decision spells out conditions under which students have the freedom to express their beliefs, and what limits are reasonable (since these are minors participating in a government sponsored activity) to ensure that such expression of ideas does not infringe on the rights of other students have an environment conducive to learning.

[IconBasser]

to a much greater degree than is currently identifiable, yes. apart from a few teachers I have who blatantly disregard any pretext of conforming to the stringent standards, school is fundamentally an oppressive environment adhering only to a select paradigm of doctrines.

too much freedom would ultimately be detrimental though, as chaos would ensue.

[IanStephenson]

Yes.

One of the top local schools technically failed part of its government inspection because they weren't formally instructing the students in "citizenship". As if the schools outstanding academic results weren't enough incentive to send my daughter there (when she's old enough)...

Ian

[RedCoatMonster]

They should have a certain amount of Academic Freedom, but they should be regulated. They are employees of the state and are payed by the citizens, so the state should be able to put SOME restriction on them. Lets face it, they are Highschool teachers, not college professors.
Thats not a stab at highschool teachers, they just have a different role than professors.

[ogrossman]

My philosophy of raising kids was to pay out more and more responsibilities as they became mature enough to handle them. Ideally schools would work the same way as far as giving students a choice of what to study. Practically, it was difficult enough making those judgment calls for only two children. I don't see how the school system could manage that kind of custom judgment call for every individual student. Nice idea but I can't see how it could ever be affordable.

[cheesemonkey]

Originally Posted by hbarcat

There is a landmark court case that has a lot to do with the amount of freedom students have to think or act as they wish (when this may be contrary to the wishes of teachers, administrators or other students) in public high schools.

Google:
Tinker v. Des Moines

This may not be exactly what you had in mind with your question, but it is relevant to some degree as the majority decision spells out conditions under which students have the freedom to express their beliefs, and what limits are reasonable (since these are minors participating in a government sponsored activity) to ensure that such expression of ideas does not infringe on the rights of other students have an environment conducive to learning.

damn i can't remember which one Tinker vs. Des Moines was... and my internet is all screwy and won't let me on google and a few other sites for some reason... which one was that again? was that the thing where they put some inappropriate stuff in the school newspaper or the one where some kids were where black arm bands in school?

[AlphaMale]

Originally Posted by MAJOR METAL

Should there be academic freedom in high school's ? After comming out of University to work with high school students its a bit of a shock as to how regulated your words have to be while instructing students of this level. Even the ability to allow students to develop arguments and opinions of issue that pertain to them in the class room is even a source of contention between teacher and administrator.

Crazy fact, High school students have more restrictions than the average soldier. At my school you're not allowed to look at a group of people fighting. No mp3 players, cellphones, and a strict dress code just off the top of my head.

[bassybill]

Precisely what do you mean by "academic freedom"? It's a bum concept.

If you mean that schools and colleges should be free from over-prescription by external authorities about what and how they should teach, I'd agree completely. But any academic is (or should be) restricted by the academic discipline of their subject.

[peterbright]

Don't take a finger nail file to school either.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Precisely what do you mean by "academic freedom"? It's a bum concept.

It originated in Medieval universities, where scholars were permitted if not encouraged to debate anything they wanted -- so long as they kept the debate within the academe. It also meant that people were allowed to own heretical books.

At the same time, academic freedom was always fragile, and all it took was a new Caliph or King -- often of lesser education -- who was offended by the debate, to shut it down.

[burk48237]

Interesting question. I do think their is far to much indoctrination that occurs in our educational system. I am amazed at how few students going into college understand even the basics of making arguments and logic. But I have a suspicion that for many of our High Schools, getting to kids to graduate with basic comprehension is a tough enough challenge. But the academic freedom question it self is much more of a problem in college where expecting certain points of views can effect grades.

[cheesemonkey]

i believe there should be academic freedom...

[Fontaine]

Since graduating last year i see how pointless high school actually was.

College is the same way, which is where I am to now. (not that i don't find my chosen profession interesting its just that when I get into my field I am going to be completely retrained)

[StanFan]

Originally Posted by Fontaine

College is the same way, which is where I am to now. (not that i don't find my chosen profession interesting its just that when I get into my field I am going to be completely retrained)

Most college level jobs I've seen available since graduating could have been given to someone straight out of high school.

[canopener]

There was one of these in my school district (I think it still exists today). It was called the "alternative program" but was changed to the "delta program" because parents thought "alternative" referred to "gay." The nameswitch kind of defeated the purpose, anyway. It was (is) a part of the public school district and is up to the student to apply to get in to. I don't know if there are any academic requirements, but the cats who I knew that were in it weren't really brain surgeons. I would also say that less than 0.5% of the student body were enrolled in the program, as well.

[baalroo]

The real problem is that schooling has been dumbed down to the point that anyone who wants to put the time in can get a degree, and thus we have a lot of terrible teachers who have absolutely no right to be determining what is and is not appropriate for children to be learning.

My friend's wife is a highschool teacher with a master's degree and here's a couple of things she's done in the last few years:

- (pardon this) slept with a black man for the sole purpose of finding out if they really had "huge things" (her explanation of events, not mine)

- called my friend when she was measuring with a tape measure with this question: "Ok, it says 1 foot, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 2 foot, 1, 2, 3, etc... I know what feet are but what's the 1 through 12 all about?"

- said about special-ed class "I kinda think maybe the special kids just aren't as smart as other kids"

[spade2you]

The problem is the school system, poor parenting, and unmotivated kids. The problem has too many prongs to have a single solution.

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by baalroo

- (pardon this) slept with a black man for the sole purpose of finding out if they really had "huge things" (her explanation of events, not mine)

What, like an Ampeg 8x10?

Mike