Should this be treated differently from terrorism?

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Washington Times

'Wilding' leaves four wounded in N.Y.

Hundreds of young men spilled into midtown Manhattan near Times Square early Monday, brawling and shooting guns after the New York International Auto Show in an annual night of mayhem the mayor called "wilding."

Four people were shot and 33 were arrested, mostly on charges of disorderly conduct on the streets not far from the Jacob A. Javits Center, where the auto show is held. Three men and a woman were arrested later Monday on gang assault charges related to one of the shootings, police said. It wasn't clear whether anyone who fired shots was among those arrested. Another 21 were issued summons for disorderly conduct or were given juvenile reports and released.

Additional officers were on patrol overnight because similar problems have happened during past auto shows, dating at least to 2003, chief spokesman Paul J. Browne said. Last year, there were 27 arrests on the same night. In earlier years arrest numbers ran in the low 20s, Mr. Browne said. A teenager was stabbed in a similar ruckus in 2006, and in 2007, another teen was slashed in the arm.

Mr. Browne described those arrested Monday as "young men looking for trouble" after the auto show.

The fracas rattled businesses near busy districts in Herald Square, as well as nearby Times Square, where an armed street hustler was fatally shot by police after exchanging gunfire on the street in December.

...

A man was shot in the ankle at Eighth Avenue and 40th Street around 12:10 a.m. Shortly afterward, a woman was hit with a BB gun several blocks northeast at Seventh Avenue and 51st Street. About two hours later, two women, both 19, were shot — one in the elbow and another in the thigh — near Seventh Avenue and 34th Street.

The woman hit with the BB gun was treated and released; the others were in stable condition, police said.

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rk-city/print/

So, I heard about this on the radio and it appears that now police have arrested about 30 people some of who posted on Twitter about being involved in this. Apparently its become a bit of an "annual thing" for gangs to decend on NYC on Easter and brawl and shoot it out. It seems to me that an organised "shoot out" in a public place it pretty close to terrorism (lacking perhaps the political or religious motivation). The idea of causing a violent public distiurbance which is clearly goign to strike fear in the public etc. So, should the charges / punishment be about the same?

[hrodbert696]

No this isn't terrorism. Most obviously, they aren't shooting their guns at people with any deliberate intention -- it sounds like they're shooting randomly into the air or whatnot and people are getting hit by stray bullets. This is celebratory behavior in some places (used to be in our own Wild West, for that matter), but is obviously dangerous and disorderly. Terrorism would have to involve targeting violence against civilians in order to affect the political process.

[FL Knifemaker]

We should just give them a free square block in the South Bronx every year and let them have at it After they're done, roll in the streetsweeping trucks.

[sarcastro83]

Not terrorism. Just really appalling behaviour that should be severely punished.

[Thunderscreech]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

We should just give them a free square block in the South Bronx every year and let them have at it After they're done, roll in the streetsweeping trucks.

This. Let the problem take care of itself.

[knumbskull]

should they have 'the same punishment' as terrorism? - no, probably best not!

extraordinary that they say this shooting thing is an annual event. you'd think the cops would be able to pre empt it a bit more effectively?

[Relic]

This has been happening in Philadelphia as well but is not making the headlines as much because so far the injuries have been mild.
I think in Philly, they're calling them "flash mobs" or something like that. From what I've heard, it's mostly young men from the urban areas and it's spontaneously organized via twitter or online somehow so the police will have very little advance notice. The only thing about it that may be a little worse is that it doesn't appear to be gang-on-gang violence as they're just rampaging and beating people up at random.
I'm not sure that I would call it terrorism, but I will say that if it continues something very very bad is bound to happen. A hoard of rampaging people, some probably with guns vs innocent bystanders, vs armed police.... it's insane.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

We should just give them a free square block in the South Bronx every year and let them have at it After they're done, roll in the streetsweeping trucks.

I like to think of myself as a mostly open-minded and compassionate person, but living near a city wracked with crime and violence, I'm absolutely SICK of it and the mentality that goes with it.
That, plus watching my kids have to defend themselves on a daily basis from that environment.. screw it, there's nothing more that I would enjoy but to seal off that square block and let the problem take care of itself.

[Phalex]

Only one sensible solution:

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by Relic

I like to think of myself as a mostly open-minded and compassionate person.

These people pray on open minded and compassionate people. There's only one thing they understand, overwhelming force.

[sleepytime]

Hooliganism is terrorism? I hear the idea of terrorism being distorted in every way imaginable of late, even applied to the peaceful exercise of free speech. How can we have law or justice if we can't understand simple terms? Let's use language for clarity rather than obfuscation.

Yes, it should be treated differently than terrorism.

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by sleepytime

Let's use language for clarity rather than obfuscation.

You must remember, the OP is a lawyer

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

You must remember, the OP is a lawyer

What's your point?

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

What's your point?

Did you miss what I quoted?

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

Did you miss what I quoted?

No, but I am asking what point you are trying to make.

[Jeff K]

I remember quite a few years back there was another disgusting instance of "wilding". If I recall correctly, a woman who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time was brutally raped by the marauding "wilders".

I agree with Knifemaker. ("These people prey on open minded and compassionate people. There's only one thing they understand, overwhelming force.")

[rekesbass]

It is textbook domestic terrorisim

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by rekesbass

It is textbook domestic terrorisim

What textbook are you reading THAT from??

[Deluge Of Sound]

I don't know if you could consider it terrorism because, as you said, it lacks political motivation. That is, for me, the distinguishing factor between acts of "terror" and random violence--the goals in mind.

[john turner]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rk-city/print/

So, I heard about this on the radio and it appears that now police have arrested about 30 people some of who posted on Twitter about being involved in this. Apparently its become a bit of an "annual thing" for gangs to decend on NYC on Easter and brawl and shoot it out. It seems to me that an organised "shoot out" in a public place it pretty close to terrorism (lacking perhaps the political or religious motivation). The idea of causing a violent public distiurbance which is clearly goign to strike fear in the public etc. So, should the charges / punishment be about the same?

pretty sure for something to be terrorism it requires ulterior motives being pursued, and the actions being conducted in pursuit of those motives.