'So This is America': Veteran Ray McGovern Bloodied and Arrested At Clinton Speech

cassanova · #1 02-18-2011, 02:24 AM

We've talked about rights and things like that here before, so I'm thinking this shouldn't get me into trouble.

It's a clip someone sent me of a man being arrested for silently protesting at one of Secretary Clinton's speeches. Yes, I know it's vague and limited in information, but audio doesn't lie. If he were being disruptive we'd all hear it on the audio.

http://911truthnews.com/ray-mcgovern...linton-speech/

This is America, the man has a right to protest and should not have been arrested. What saddens and sickens me even more, is that Secretary Clinton just continued without missing a beat, she should have said something. Also, not a single person in the audience spoke up. This entire incident is horrible and embarrassing to me.

The irony, she was giving a speech about how people should be able to do these things.

What say you to this situation?

BTW, just because this post involves a politician does not mean the thread has to get political. As I said, we've talked about peoples rights here before without it somehow becoming political in nature, so lets please keep this one that way too.

JacoLesFlea · #2 02-18-2011, 02:29 AM

can you post a link to the clip?

cassanova · #3 02-18-2011, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacoLesFlea

can you post a link to the clip?

My bad. Thought I included it. It's in my OP now.

Relic · #4 02-18-2011, 05:45 AM

oh the irony... that's pretty sad.

Just my opinion here but I'm thinking that this one's going to get political in no time flat. Hope not

C.Linton · #5 02-18-2011, 05:48 AM

Before I would comment on this article, I'd like to know exactly what this "911 truth" website's agenda is. Sounds awfully suspicious to me.

bmc · #6 02-18-2011, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Before I would comment on this article, I'd like to know exactly what this "911 truth" website's agenda is. Sounds awfully suspicious to me.

"Truthers" are no different than the "birthers". Aside from having a poor command of the English language, they believe we're being fed lies and until we hear what we want to hear, blah blah blah, it's all lies and conspiracies.

Relic · #7 02-18-2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmc

It's no different than the "truthers": We're being fed lies and until we hear what we want to hear, blah blah blah, it's all lies and conspiracies.

No different from ANY damn "journalism" these days, Right or Left. To me, it's all like this just to varying degrees.

Wow.. am I ever cynical for a Friday...

cassanova · #8 02-18-2011, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Before I would comment on this article, I'd like to know exactly what this "911 truth" website's agenda is. Sounds awfully suspicious to me.

Their agenda is nada importante on this one because, irrespective of their agenda, this man still has the legal right to protest in this country and he was clearly arrested for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

oh the irony... that's pretty sad.

Just my opinion here but I'm thinking that this one's going to get political in no time flat. Hope not

Tell me about it. The irony behind it all is what actually makes this story so valuable. It's sad that other people have to go to jail to protect the rights of the sheeple that aren't willing to take a stand against these types of violations.

I too, hope that it does not get political, because IMO, it's a good topic worth discussing. I have a feeling its going to get political too, that's why I specifically asked for people to refrain from that.

Febs · #9 02-18-2011, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassanova

Their agenda is nada importante on this one because, irrespective of their agenda, this man still has the legal right to protest in this country and he was clearly arrested for it.

From the link you posted:

"Source: Partnership for Civil Justice."

"Mr. McGovern is being represented by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF)."

This article seems more like a propaganda piece than an unbiased report.

bmc · #10 02-18-2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

No different from ANY damn "journalism" these days, Right or Left. To me, it's all like this just to varying degrees.

Wow.. am I ever cynical for a Friday...

I don't think you're cynical. I think your spot on.

cassanova · #11 02-18-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs

From the link you posted:

"Source: Partnership for Civil Justice."

"Mr. McGovern is being represented by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF)."

This article seems more like a propaganda piece than an unbiased report.

Perhaps, but that does not change the fact Mr. McGovern was arrested for protesting something. Something that is well within his constitutional right to do. You can throw all the wording in the article out the window because the video itself does not lie and tells the story quite well.

Mark Latimour · #12 02-18-2011, 06:58 AM

Perhaps he wasn't in a Free Speech Zone^TM?

You still have those in America right?

bmc · #13 02-18-2011, 07:04 AM

Freedom, means doing and saying what you want, just as long as you smile at the CCTV cameras, don't communicate via internet that's tracked, or say it on your satellite tracked cell phone, or disagree with the left or the right.

Winnb · #14 02-18-2011, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassanova

Their agenda is nada importante on this one because, irrespective of their agenda, this man still has the legal right to protest in this country and he was clearly arrested for it.

There is no such thing as a legal right to protest. Not sure where you got that from but it's wrong. There is a constitutional right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The underlined text is taken directly from the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. But that right is HIGHLY REGULATED, like all rights. It is not unlimited.

For example:

I can't walk into wal-mart and protest. Nor can I do so on any private property without the owner's permission. And the owner has the right to boot me off anytime they want.

I do not have the right to interrupt someone else's peaceful gathering, speech, protest, picnic, etc.

I do not have the right to protest if my protest interferes with with the workings of government or private businesses. For example - I can't interfere with free trade/commerce.

I do not have the right to protest if my protest interferes with the freedom of movement of individuals. Example - I can't protest in the middle of the street or close down a railroad track.

And now the biggie:
I do not have the right to protest if local city/state or federal ordinances must be obtained prior to my protest and I have not obtained them. In other words, you can't just go on public or private property and start protesting something. Well you can, but you'll get arrested. Usually a permit is required to hold a protest/rally/gathering etc on public property. You can't just show up out of the blue and start protesting something.

Holding a "peaceful" protest doesn't mean it's a LAWFUL protest.

We are a nation of laws in America. First and always, we are a nation of laws. ALL of our rights are regulated. Protesting is no different.

Jim Nazium · #15 02-18-2011, 07:14 AM

For any who have issues with the source of the story, read the Huffington Post coverage:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-ka..._b_824433.html
The facts don't seem to be in dispute. The guy was arrested for a non-violent, indeed silent, act of protest. First amendment anyone?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

DaveDeVille · #16 02-18-2011, 08:29 AM

who knows ,
maybe the guy showed up to the press conference with a bad attitude .

maybe he's just not right in the head .

maybe he was being watched by the police for
making previous veiled threats against Clinton ...

maybe he's a citizen who dosen't quite
know how to behave in a formal situation .

who knows ?

jmo ,ymmv , etc.etc.

pharmakon · #17 02-18-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnb

There is no such thing as a legal right to protest. Not sure where you got that from but it's wrong. There is a constitutional right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The underlined text is taken directly from the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. But that right is HIGHLY REGULATED, like all rights. It is not unlimited.

For example:

I can't walk into wal-mart and protest. Nor can I do so on any private property without the owner's permission. And the owner has the right to boot me off anytime they want.

I do not have the right to interrupt someone else's peaceful gathering, speech, protest, picnic, etc.

I do not have the right to protest if my protest interferes with with the workings of government or private businesses. For example - I can't interfere with free trade/commerce.

I do not have the right to protest if my protest interferes with the freedom of movement of individuals. Example - I can't protest in the middle of the street or close down a railroad track.

And now the biggie:
I do not have the right to protest if local city/state or federal ordinances must be obtained prior to my protest and I have not obtained them. In other words, you can't just go on public or private property and start protesting something. Well you can, but you'll get arrested. Usually a permit is required to hold a protest/rally/gathering etc on public property. You can't just show up out of the blue and start protesting something.

Holding a "peaceful" protest doesn't mean it's a LAWFUL protest.

We are a nation of laws in America. First and always, we are a nation of laws. ALL of our rights are regulated. Protesting is no different.

Now I know why you have "WIN" in your screenname, as this post is full of it!

Full of win, I mean.. not full of "IT"

cassanova · #18 02-18-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnb

There is no such thing as a legal right to protest. Not sure where you got that from but it's wrong. There is a constitutional right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The underlined text is taken directly from the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. But that right is HIGHLY REGULATED, like all rights. It is not unlimited.

And now the biggie:
I do not have the right to protest if local city/state or federal ordinances must be obtained prior to my protest and I have not obtained them. In other words, you can't just go on public or private property and start protesting something. Well you can, but you'll get arrested. Usually a permit is required to hold a protest/rally/gathering etc on public property. You can't just show up out of the blue and start protesting something.

Holding a "peaceful" protest doesn't mean it's a LAWFUL protest.

We are a nation of laws in America. First and always, we are a nation of laws. ALL of our rights are regulated. Protesting is no different.

Nothing like trimming a little "fat" off the constitution.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

As for the ordinance aspect of your quote. The way a lot of people see that is, we should not and will not pay money to obtain an ordinance. Why you ask? Because our forefathers told us we have a right to assemble like that. That to me says I can do it without having to pay for it.

It is in fact, carte blanche that cannot be circumvented by any local, state law, or federal laws, because the constitution explicitly forbids it. Hence, the "making no law restricting" aspect.

Once you force people to purchase a permit due to an ordinance that prevents people from assembling, then you are in fact, placing a law restricting your right to assemble, and the constitution clearly states that is a no no.

jam.majors · #19 02-18-2011, 08:55 AM

Wow. I thought you might have been stretching a little when you said she didn't miss a beat: she didn't even take a breath.

But this will probably be like getting felt up by the TSA: 15 minutes of anger and then everyone rolls over and takes it.

jugglingfreak · #20 02-18-2011, 09:05 AM

However, you cannot assemble on or in private property. George Washington University IS private property. (The George Washington University is a private university, not public)

By your definition that

Quote:

"It is in fact, carte blanche that cannot be circumvented by any local, state law, or federal laws"

Basically, I can come and protest you or something you are doing that I disagree with by setting up a tent on your property or squatting in your house as protest and there is nothing you can legally do about it.

Which is not the case.