So I'm Thinking of Opening a Venue...

**RobinC** · #1 08-15-2011, 01:10 PM

I've been thinking for a while that I'd like to open a music venue. Now I'll preface this by saying that this idea is in its early pipe-dream stages, and that I have done enough research to know that this will not be an easy venture. Even so, I feel that I have some good ideas and the potential for success. I'm throwing my ideas out here in the hopes that someone with some practical experience can chime in and steer me away from some of the roadblocks I am likely to meet along the way.

A little bit about the location:
I live in a relatively small college town of 63,000 people. Of this population roughly half are students or recent grads so the demographic is definitely the young music-loving, night scene type. My city is about 20 minutes drive from the California state capitol of Sacramento which is a city of several hundred thousand people. The downtown of my city is a focused area of about a square mile and that is where I am looking to locate my venue. My city has a vibrant night life and bar scene, tons of restaurants, plenty of day time activity with the shops and such, but literally no dedicated music venue. Its ridiculous. There are a few performance spaces in the city, but they are either associated with the campus and essentially off limits, a professional concert hall (where I work, actually) that is more suited to ballet and the symphony, and one bar with a stage that has been closed down for almost a year. As I see it, I have a captive audience and a vacant niche ready to be filled.

A little bit about the venue:
I aim to create a dedicated music space, not just a bar with a one foot stage in a corner. The size of the place will be determined on the size of the building that I can afford to rent and renovate, but probably in the 200-1000 person capacity range. All in all I'm looking to keep things pretty simple. If the building I end up with has access to a kitchen, than I'd explore serving limited food options, but if not than I'd try to only serve drinks and prepared foods, pastries, snacks, etc. I would definitely serve alcohol, probably starting with a beer and wine license and graduating to a liquor license. I'd like this to be place that could book professional touring acts as well as serve the community for local performances and the occasional battle of the bands.

What I am trying to figure out is how a place like this generates income. Obviously alcohol (and maybe food) sales are a part of it. Ticket sales are another obvious one. Then there is the possibility of the occasional rental. But are these things enough to keep a place like this afloat, considering building rent, utilities, employees, paying out bands, keeping an inventory of food and drink, etc...? If not, how else do you make your money?

Funky Ghost · #2 08-15-2011, 01:43 PM

That is a fickle town. The Bikes outnumber the cars, so work an angle like that? I know the Bombay Bicycle Club was popular in the late 80's early 90's. Parking will be a huge problem for the potential out of town market. Davis is a nightmare to the unprepared traveler. Zoning and sound laws are very stringent in Davis too. I wish ya luck man, I'll pop in if it gets off the ground. I certainly partied a lot in Davis in my formative years.

MatticusMania · #3 08-15-2011, 01:46 PM

Thats very cool, and I wish you much success! I dont have any info for you, sadly. I think opening a venue has been a dream of many a musician. I know I have thought of the idea. Maybe one day I'll have some good investment capital to do something like that. I always wanted to couple my "venue" with a vegetarian cafe and a "beer snob" type bar!

Spinal Tapper · #4 08-15-2011, 02:12 PM

I'd go for a smaller venue. Something the size of a dive bar / clubhouse type thing. Think old punk venues in the late 70's. That way, you can pack it fuller and make it always look like a great time - sweaty kids falling over eachother and whatnot.

I often see over-ambitious club owners/promoters try and get teenage bands to fill their 500-1000 person venues leaving 3/4 of the dance floor empty on a weekend night.

kanonfodr · #5 08-15-2011, 02:17 PM

Depending on the size, I might recommend a pool table or two. The key is to get people in and buying drinks/food. In addition to musical acts, pool tables and a TV for a sports game or two might work as well and give you more things to get people coming in at different hours.

Other than that, I don't have much I'm afraid :/

Peace,
Greg

**RobinC** · #6 08-15-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky Ghost

That is a fickle town. The Bikes outnumber the cars, so work an angle like that? I know the Bombay Bicycle Club was popular in the late 80's early 90's. Parking will be a huge problem for the potential out of town market. Davis is a nightmare to the unprepared traveler. Zoning and sound laws are very stringent in Davis too. I wish ya luck man, I'll pop in if it gets off the ground. I certainly partied a lot in Davis in my formative years.

I like the bike angle idea, as most things in Davis are at least somewhat bike related. The parking issue is a good thing to keep in mind as well, although there are some more recent multi-level parking structures and large lots that have been built in downtown since the late 90s/early 2000s. As for the noise, that is a definite constraint as some of the available buildings are mixed-use with retail on the street level and apartment on top, which effectively takes them out of the running as an acceptable location for loud and late music. I haven't looked too closely into zoning yet, but I am hoping that anywhere within a block of a loud bar that has drunken college students spilling out of it at 2am will also accommodate a music venue. Thanks for the input, keep it coming!

Kawai-chang · #7 08-15-2011, 02:59 PM

Well, reading your posts onthis thread, why not angle the marketing of the venue to be an "unplugged" sort of venue. Get jazzy groups or rock acts that do the acoustic thing. This will cut down on the noise issues, and also something you may not have thought of: as an owner, drunk kids attending loud rock shows are going to be an insurance nightmare, as well as a pain in the butt when you have fights, bouncers, cops, blood, etc.

I feel the same way about pool tables. I enjoy playing pool, but they can be brawl magnets.

Aim for the faculty business. Money, drinking, serve some good grub, have mellow shows and watch the $$$ roll in.

**RobinC** · #8 08-15-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawai-chang

Well, reading your posts onthis thread, why not angle the marketing of the venue to be an "unplugged" sort of venue. Get jazzy groups or rock acts that do the acoustic thing. This will cut down on the noise issues, and also something you may not have thought of: as an owner, drunk kids attending loud rock shows are going to be an insurance nightmare, as well as a pain in the butt when you have fights, bouncers, cops, blood, etc.

I feel the same way about pool tables. I enjoy playing pool, but they can be brawl magnets.

Aim for the faculty business. Money, drinking, serve some good grub, have mellow shows and watch the $$$ roll in.

I appreciate the suggestion, but the vision is to have the capability to host a full electric band. The reality is that this would most likely be a smaller than larger venue where rowdy patrons could be relatively easily managed and there wouldn't be a need for many bouncers or security personnel. The trick, I think, is finding a balance between that and having a place large enough to attract high caliber talent.

vbsurfer3001 · #9 08-15-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobinC

I appreciate the suggestion, but the vision is to have the capability to host a full electric band. The reality is that this would most likely be a smaller than larger venue where rowdy patrons could be relatively easily managed and there wouldn't be a need for many bouncers or security personnel. The trick, I think, is finding a balance between that and having a place large enough to attract high caliber talent.

Amenities, be the venue for "name" acts on mon-thurs via making it a great place for them to hang out & rest in before & after the show. I'm talking sauna, whirlpool, home theater, deliver food from all over town on call, then you can develop a name for your venue and later on command some names on Friday and Saturday. Just my .02

**colcifer** · #10 08-15-2011, 06:17 PM

Whatever you end up doing, the trick will be to figure out a way to start small and expand when you're ready. How's the local talent?

**RobinC** · #11 08-16-2011, 08:42 AM

Hmmmm, amenities! That was one thing I hadn't considered. I've accounted for the need to have a green room, dressing room, and backstage bathroom, but that was about it. It would be sweet to offer the talent a luxury suite but that is morphing this venue idea into quite a project. Here's a question for ya: The downtown core where I'd like to place this venue is literally walking distance from a number of hotels and motels, some nicer than others, but all within 2 blocks of anywhere I would locate my venue. Do you think forgoing the on-site amenities like a hot tub, sauna, and bedroom in favor of having something that is literally less than half a mile away would suffice? I know that this is what the theater I work at does with talent that stays over night, and this is a place that has had the likes of Ravi Shankar, Yo yo Ma, Willie Nelson, Steve Martin, John Cleese, to name a few, on its stage.

As far as local talent goes, there is a definite element of transience in my city due to the turnover of students at the university, so the strength of the live music scene tends to ebb and flow to some degree. That being said, there are a lot of local bands, and a handful of good bands that happen to be local. I was involved in a project a few years ago that tried to develop and network the music/musician scene and that went strong for a few months but then died when the guy who was spearheading the project moved out of town. I really feel like there is a lot of interest in live music and that a performance space that would be open to the local scene as well as attract bigger acts could galvanize that interest and help to transform my city from a "city with music" to a music city.

I should also mention that I have met the Mayor of my city several times through gigs and events that my band has been involved with, and he asked me how I thought we could promote and develop a music scene. My city considers itself to be progressive, cultured, and "artsy", so I definitely intend to meet with him again in the future when I have a more formalized business plan and hopefully I can secure his support (and maybe some public funding?!?) to get this thing off the ground.

**VincentSalizeri** · #12 08-16-2011, 09:17 AM

Most of the venues I know of in Sac seem to be bars first. I remember seeing a few acoustic sets at a coffeeshop that had an open mike night. I don't know if Davis's demographics are at all similar to Sacramento, but I'd suggest you take a list of the major venues up North and talk with some of the owners about their business model. They're probably aware of how to survive, even if music isn't their primary goal.

TheVoiceless · #13 08-16-2011, 09:58 AM

My first step would be to reach out to people in the community and see what they say. I think the places that survive are the ones that people feel connected too. A hippie bar in a biker town will not work out. And a large venue is hard to fill unless you know you have the support of the community. National acts suck to deal with. Unless your in a tourist destination or a large city I would think most of your draw would come from local acts. Example: a friend I know has a friend that owns a venue in the Poconos PA. Not the tourist destination it once was. Booked KISS and almost did not sell enough tickets to cover expenses.

If you can fill a room Thurs,Fri, Sat, even if its 150 capacity then you have succeeded.

**RobinC** · #14 08-16-2011, 10:19 AM

I agree, community involvement is a must. I think that a place attempting to operate at a smaller scale must be a place that has a cool or unique enough vibe that performers want to play there, and is also somewhere that can cater to local community needs. For example, there are a lot of small to medium sized clubs (100-300 person capacity) that do well with touring acts that are a notch below the huge national acts like KISS. I'm thinking of clubs where I've seen Charlie Hunter, G. Love, Soulive, SOJA, The Easy Star All Stars, Orgone, John Brown's Body, Dumpstaphunk, ?uestlove, and so one, but also seen local acts (as openers or headliners), host local events, etc...

6jase5 · #15 08-16-2011, 10:25 AM

Don't forget a small but effectively updrafted, vented and aptly labeled FART ROOM. Think oven hood times 10, best located near the men's room. 6' x 6' should do the trick with a sign on the door stating "Don't forget to break the tail!"

('Breaking the tail' means patting down ones' backside post flatulence to release any trapped gases.)

**RobinC** · #16 08-16-2011, 10:29 AM

In researching the realities of a business like this, I've also noticed that a lot of the more successful ventures are those where people actually own the building as opposed to renting. And while we're still in the pipe-dream phase, why not dream big?! It seems like expenses related to renting are the biggest drain on income in the club/venue business. Also, a lot of the existing property owners in town might be resistant to a renter coming in to their building and retrofitting the place with a stage and such. Obviously attempting to own would be enormously more expensive in terms of start-up capitol, but in the long run maybe it would be the more lucrative option?

I am fortunate enough to have a friend who is the heir to his family's wine-making operation. This winery is no small operation, and I think my friend might have the means to be a major investor in my idea. Of course I haven't actually approached him yet since this is still in its early planning stages, but he may be able to provide enough start up capitol to buy a building outright. Hey, at least dreams are free!

**RobinC** · #17 08-16-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6jase5

Don't forget a small but effectively updrafted, vented and aptly labeled FART ROOM. Think oven hood times 10, best located near the men's room. 6' x 6' should do the trick with a sign on the door stating "Don't forget to break the tail!"

('Breaking the tail' means patting down ones' backside post flatulence to release any trapped gases.)

Fart room... I like it!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Xx01GsPY0O...funny-fart.jpg

vbsurfer3001 · #18 08-16-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobinC

Hmmmm, amenities! That was one thing I hadn't considered. I've accounted for the need to have a green room, dressing room, and backstage bathroom, but that was about it. It would be sweet to offer the talent a luxury suite but that is morphing this venue idea into quite a project. Here's a question for ya: The downtown core where I'd like to place this venue is literally walking distance from a number of hotels and motels, some nicer than others, but all within 2 blocks of anywhere I would locate my venue. Do you think forgoing the on-site amenities like a hot tub, sauna, and bedroom in favor of having something that is literally less than half a mile away would suffice? I know that this is what the theater I work at does with talent that stays over night, and this is a place that has had the likes of Ravi Shankar, Yo yo Ma, Willie Nelson, Steve Martin, John Cleese, to name a few, on its stage.

As far as local talent goes, there is a definite element of transience in my city due to the turnover of students at the university, so the strength of the live music scene tends to ebb and flow to some degree. That being said, there are a lot of local bands, and a handful of good bands that happen to be local. I was involved in a project a few years ago that tried to develop and network the music/musician scene and that went strong for a few months but then died when the guy who was spearheading the project moved out of town. I really feel like there is a lot of interest in live music and that a performance space that would be open to the local scene as well as attract bigger acts could galvanize that interest and help to transform my city from a "city with music" to a music city.

There's a big difference to a private, you are the only customer, feeling that a band/performer would get at your club that couldn't be duplicated by any hotel.

**RobinC** · #19 08-16-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbsurfer3001

There's a big difference to a private, you are the only customer, feeling that a band/performer would get at your club that couldn't be duplicated by any hotel.

True enough.

vbsurfer3001 · #20 08-16-2011, 07:45 PM

I say this because college kids will go to shows on a Tuesday night, you can get a bigger headliner (not arena types, think Dead Weather) if your place is seen as a gig and a relaxing break from a tour. So you don't compete for the weekend money at first but you own the weekdays in your area. It's 4 nights vs. 2 to cover your rent, and also to build a business .