Soft Water vs. Hard & Mineral Build Up In Plumbing

**twocargar** · #1 03-13-2013, 10:44 PM

We have an oil burner/boiler that heats our house and hot water and we have a neighborhood well for our water (we're rural). One of the issues we are having is mineral deposits clogging up our burner's coil, and after three years are needing to replace the coil again (a $900 fix).

The guy who services our boiler said he recommends putting in a hot water tank, which would eliminate the coil in the boiler and heat water for bathing and dishes in the water tank instead. This would also eliminate our need to replace the coil in our boiler every few years because of mineral build up.

One of our neighbors suggested a water softening system to lessen the amount of mineral build up in our plumbing. The last time I used soft water it was at my cousin's house 20 years ago, and I felt like the soap never got rinsed when I took a shower and even when I washed my hands. Is it better now? Are there levels of hard or soft water?

Does anyone have experience with getting a water softener, and how was it after you switched?

Indiana Mike · #2 03-14-2013, 04:14 AM

Hold the phone ...

There is a product out that you install in your incoming feed that will stop buildup in ALL your plumbing .

I don't remember what it's called but my favorite plumbing wholesale house sells it .

It is not an " as seen on tv" gimmick.

It may be three hundred dollars or so plus installation ,but it works .

I'll call them today and post a link....

i_got_a_mohawk · #3 03-14-2013, 04:56 AM

Never had a water softener because I've always had a pretty soft supply from the mains.

However, water hardness is a scale, not sure if you can get softeners which only take hardness down a few notches?

aproud1 · #4 03-14-2013, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Never had a water softener because I've always had a pretty soft supply from the mains.

However, water hardness is a scale, not sure if you can get softeners which only take hardness down a few notches?

I've considered working that out for my parents at their last house. The feed water was very hard around 30 grains per gallon but mom didn't like the hard to rinse soap feel. The only thing I could figure was adding a blend from the softener and softener bypass so you can blend hard and soft together. Depending on how hard your water is you would likely need to maintain that blend valve, but that would give you relative ability to change how soft you make your water.

I guess you could also crack the bypass valve on your softener depending on how it's plumbed in, which would do the same thing though less precisely. Also may give you performance issues with your softener depending on how it's setup and how much volume/pressure it needs to regenerate.

DwaynieAD · #5 03-14-2013, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

Hold the phone ...

There is a product out that you install in your incoming feed that will stop buildup in ALL your plumbing .

I don't remember what it's called but my favorite plumbing wholesale house sells it .

It is not an " as seen on tv" gimmick.

It may be three hundred dollars or so plus installation ,but it works .

I'll call them today and post a link....

scale ban

http://www.lehmierelectric.com/scaleban.html

aproud1 · #6 03-14-2013, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

scale ban

http://www.lehmierelectric.com/scaleban.html

Interesting.

1958Bassman · #7 03-14-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

scale ban

http://www.lehmierelectric.com/scaleban.html

It can't work. The link shows "The MSER signal from the solid state circuitry flows to a solenoid coil wound around the main supply pipe." and everyone knows tubes are better.

1958Bassman · #8 03-14-2013, 06:14 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

Unless the minerals are removed, they'll eventually accumulate on pipes in a closed system, like a boiler

geeza · #9 03-14-2013, 06:48 AM

Subbed.

KJung · #10 03-14-2013, 08:25 AM

Can't comment on your boiler issue, but will say that the 'oily feeling' you are talking about with soap and softened water is not what you think. The hard water has a drying impact on skin, where soft water doesn't. So, it is actually a positive not a negative. That being said, every soft water system allows you to dial in the amount of softness, so you can control that issue easily.

We have VERY hard well water at our vacation home in the UP of Michigan, and must use a water softener, or our pipes would be clogged every few years. The downside is, of course, adding salt to the bin, and also the fact that you can't really drink the softened water (it isn't dangerous... just salty). No problem for bathing, brushing teeth, dishwashing. We installed a reverse osmosis system with its own faucet for drinking water (it takes the sodium out of the softened water from drinking).

KJung · #11 03-14-2013, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aproud1

I've considered working that out for my parents at their last house. The feed water was very hard around 30 grains per gallon but mom didn't like the hard to rinse soap feel. The only thing I could figure was adding a blend from the softener and softener bypass so you can blend hard and soft together. Depending on how hard your water is you would likely need to maintain that blend valve, but that would give you relative ability to change how soft you make your water.

I guess you could also crack the bypass valve on your softener depending on how it's plumbed in, which would do the same thing though less precisely. Also may give you performance issues with your softener depending on how it's setup and how much volume/pressure it needs to regenerate.

Again, you can set the softener to 'leave some hardness in' (i.e., in your case, set it for 20 grains instead of 30). However, that 'soap feeling' is again, actually a good thing once you figure out what it is.

To give you an idea of what we deal with in the UP, where the wells are drilled through limestone, we have 120 grains per gallon, or whatever that measure is. Had to install an industrial softener. Works great, but eats a lot of salt when we are up there!

Indiana Mike · #12 03-14-2013, 08:34 AM

I said it works but I'll post a link and let you do research.

The reason your hot water heat exchanger coil keeps failing due to mineral deposits is because minerals tend to plate out where the temperature change is occurring .

I work with heat exchangers for a living .

You have to eliminate the mineral or suspend it in some way to prevent it from plating out. .....water softeners don't eliminate all minerals ..... they change .....do the research

Indiana Mike · #13 03-14-2013, 08:39 AM

Here you go ....

You decide ,,,I have zero experience with this product...

http://fluiddynamicsna.com/solutions...sidential.html

.

KJung · #14 03-14-2013, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

Hold the phone ...

There is a product out that you install in your incoming feed that will stop buildup in ALL your plumbing .

I don't remember what it's called but my favorite plumbing wholesale house sells it .

It is not an " as seen on tv" gimmick.

It may be three hundred dollars or so plus installation ,but it works .

I'll call them today and post a link....

We investigated that, and it does work from all indications, but from what we were told by a number of vendors, only on 'relatively soft water', under 20grams or so (maybe even less... can't remember). That might be a good fix for the OP to try if his water is not particularly hard

**twocargar** · #15 03-14-2013, 01:32 PM

Wow, great info. Thanks everyone!

I just spoke to our well people and our water is 130 mg/l, which falls in the middle of the 'hard' scale (from 'soft' to 'very hard'). We are probably going to go with the external indirect fired water tank. These tanks will save us money in the long run, since our boiler won't be heating the water as often as it is now.