Somali Refugees Fear Retaliation

[Dr. Cheese]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100713/wl_csm/313735

This is the first thing I thought of when I heard about the World Cup bombing in Kampala. I hope this is not too political.

[Mark Latimour]

Hardly an unsubstantiated fear either. IIRC even in the US following the Oaklahoma city bombing and 9/11 that was a number of quite serious retalitory attacks against "middle eastern" looking people. I don't doubt that in Uganda, there will be attacks against Somali refugees. Its one of many sad "results" of terrorism these days.

[Relic]

I don't recall the attacks against "middle Eastern-looking people" after the Oklahoma City bombing, but I do recall some really sad attacks after 9/11. I recall specifically a Sikh gentleman being murdered. It's pathetic really...
It's a legitimate fear - people go blind with rage and start looking for revenge in any way they can get it. It's a nasty part of human nature that I don't think will change any time soon.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Relic

I don't recall the attacks against "middle Eastern-looking people" after the Oklahoma City bombing, but I do recall some really sad attacks after 9/11. I recall specifically a Sikh gentleman being murdered. It's pathetic really...
It's a legitimate fear - people go blind with rage and start looking for revenge in any way they can get it. It's a nasty part of human nature that I don't think will change any time soon.

/thread derail

Obviously the source is worth beaing in mind here, but the first page mentions over 200 attacks following Oaklahoma city: http://www.humanitykingdom.com/libra...b-american.pdf

Anyway, regardless of whether there was or wasn't any, it seems everyone agrees this is a legitimate fear fpr these refugees.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

/thread derail

Obviously the source is worth beaing in mind here, but the first page mentions over 200 attacks following Oaklahoma city: http://www.humanitykingdom.com/libra...b-american.pdf

Anyway, regardless of whether there was or wasn't any, it seems everyone agrees this is a legitimate fear fpr these refugees.

Oh no need to quote sources, I don't doubt it at all, I'm just saying that I don't recall hearing about any such attacks vs some every highly publicized attacks after 9/11. I'd bet my next paycheck that any/every such attacks spawn retaliatory attacks on innocent victims. That's what I mean when I mentioned that it's just basic human nature. Some make the news, I'll bet most dont.

[Dr. Cheese]

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time in Africa, it is hard to explain how marginal life is as a refugee in an already poor African country. Given that Somalis traditionally have a rather aloof way of dealing with "Bantu" Africans, it would not take much to fire up many locals against them, IMO.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time in Africa, it is hard to explain how marginal life is as a refugee in an already poor African country. Given that Somalis traditionally have a rather aloof way of dealing with "Bantu" Africans, it would not take much to fire up many locals against them, IMO.

It's a scary thought that we could eventually end up with another Darfur-type situation. Of course it's a very different situation/context but what does it matter to the victims? The end result is still the same.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Relic

It's a scary thought that we could eventually end up with another Darfur-type situation. Of course it's a very different situation/context but what does it matter to the victims? The end result is still the same.

The Somali population in Uganda is too small for it to be a Darfur situation. What retaliation would mean is that it would suddenly become much harder for any Somalis to escape Al Shabab by leaving. The only good options would be Ethiopia and Kenya which already have very large indigenous ethnic Somali populations.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The Somali population in Uganda is too small for it to be a Darfur situation. What retaliation would mean is that it would suddenly become much harder for any Somalis to escape Al Shabab by leaving. The only good options would be Ethiopia and Kenya which already have very large indigenous ethnic Somali populations.

I was just thinking about the current population of Somalis in Uganda and what could happen to them if it were to explode. Some pretty bad things can happen when unfair blame gets put on a whole ethnic or national group. Maybe Bosnia would be a more apt comparison, I dunno, but regardless I hope this one just passes without violence.

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by Relic

I dunno, but regardless I hope this one just passes without violence.

No way. Always the violence. The only thing that passes without violence (usually) is poo.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by MEKer

No way. Always the violence. The only thing that passes without violence (usually) is poo.

I cannot comment too much about Somalia without violating OT rules. I'll just say that I hope that outside forces help Somalia itself stabilize. That will be the best thing that could happen for everyone.

[Kawai-chang]

I hope I'm not painting with too broad a brush here, but is there ANY country on the African continent that is stable/relatively peaceful? I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but all I ever hear about is civil wars/ethnic massacres/pirates coming from there.

Please forgive any ignorance I may be showing, I'm really just wondering. Also, to be frank, quite saddened and upset by almost all of the news I hear coming from there.

[Kawai-chang]

Hang on I'm checking sumpthin' out.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Kawai-chang

I hope I'm not painting with too broad a brush here, but is there ANY country on the African continent that is stable/relatively peaceful? I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but all I ever hear about is civil wars/ethnic massacres/pirates coming from there.

Please forgive any ignorance I may be showing, I'm really just wondering. Also, to be frank, quite saddened and upset by almost all of the news I hear coming from there.

Actually, much of Africa is doing alright during the current global recession. For the last ten years, much of Africa has been experiencing steady economic growth. As others have said, good news is boring.

[Kawai-chang]

According to the Global Peace Index, Botswana was ranked # 33 in the world. for reference the US is #85, and New Zealand is #1.

[Kawai-chang]

Now, is that economic growth relative to the other African countries? Or in a comparo with the previous years of each country?

Secondly, will that, in your opinion, help curb the tribalism/warlordism that seems to hold sway in impoverished nations there?

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by Kawai-chang

According to the Global Peace Index, Botswana was ranked # 33 in the world. for reference the US is #85, and New Zealand is #1.

well, that certainly needs a grain of salt...for many reasons I will not get into so as to not violate the politics rule here. Altho I guess we should all move to Botswana to be in a more peaceful place. I mean, 85 to 33 is pretty big jump. Let's go!

[Kawai-chang]

A grain of salt, indeed. Reading the way the matrix was set up, they include wepaons imports/exports, defense spending as a % of GDP, etc.

Give it a look on Wikipedia