Starting a Venue

whoatherechunk · #1 08-03-2008, 02:12 AM

I have plans on someday creating a music venue. My friend and I have plans of hopefully making this a reality soon. He wants to make an oxygen bar and I want to make a venue and we're hoping that we can collaborate. Anyways, I have a bunch of money saved up for the average 19 year old but nothing gargantuan. I know that if I wanted to make this a profit based business I would need to invest massive amounts of money into the business. I was thinking that maybe I could possibly start a non-profit organization venue and begin with that. I have no idea about how I would go about it, but I guess I would have to write to the governor of TX and possibly talk to some of the city council representatives for additional information. The music scene in my city is truly dead and I want to revive it. It's not because there is a lack of good bands but because there aren't any venues that are devoted to the musicians. I mean there truly is not much to do in my city besides partying, going across the border and getting wasted, and causing idiotic activities. So.....I guess if anyone has any experience in starting up a venue, volunteering/being a part of the venue, or simply has any input, I would greatly appreciate it.

Masher88 · #2 08-03-2008, 09:18 AM

I thought the whole "O2 bar" phase died out a while ago when nobody cared about it.

Visirale · #3 08-03-2008, 09:43 AM

I think now would be a bad time to try to start any business, especially something as volatile as a music venue... especially if your local scene isn't already thriving. It'd be a lot easier to start one and be successful in a place with an already thriving scene, especially if you could offer something unique along with the music (ie oxygen bar, hookah bar, little things like that).

Definitely not trying to shoot down your dream, but if it were me, I'd do something a lot more lucrative for a while, save up the real money needed to do it right, then try it after I had another very steady job and plenty of money saved up so I could absorb the loss if necessary..

**NOLA Bass** · #4 08-03-2008, 10:49 AM

IMO you need to get alot more real world experience before you start a business venture like that. Just my 2 cents.

whoatherechunk · #5 08-03-2008, 11:11 AM

Yea you guys are definitely right about everything you've said and I would never plunge into it right away. I mean I'm only 19 and I definitely do not have the experience yet. I just want to do a bit of research for a while and hopefully in the future once I am financially settled and the economy improves I can finally do it.

IanStephenson · #6 08-03-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoatherechunk

...there aren't any venues that are devoted to the musicians.

This sounds like a plan for failure. Why should there be a venue devoted to musicians? Are there venues dedicated to bar staff?

A good buisiness is dedicated to making a profit. A Bar/venue acheives this by the secondary objective of being dedicated to the AUDIENCE. Musicians are the employees. If getting good music in brings in paying customers, then you have good music - if bad music brings in an audience, then a good venue has bad music.

If you want to make a venue FOR musicians, it'll be a hangout for your friends, and little more. If an amazing band clears the bar in seconds, then booking them isn't a good business decision - being "dedicated to musicians" will get you closed down fast.

You need to operate a business by working out how you're going to make money. Anything else is a very expensive undulgence. You'll have a great rep with all the local bands, but you'll be homeless and bankrupt.

Deacon_Blues · #7 08-03-2008, 03:44 PM

There's a non-profit jazz club in my town, in which I am a board member. It was started up in 1995 and has been running ever since by volunteers. There is a total of 9 board members inclusive chairman, and all have different tasks. Everyone does it for "the greater good" of having a local jazz/live music club in town. Most of the members are professional musicians and play there often as well. It's like a nice small community, with more people than just the 9 of us. 20-30 is closer to the truth, when counting all "insiders"...

We get some funding (around 15-20 k€/year) for keeping this club running. Without that, we wouldn't survive. Sure you get some money from entrance tickets and beer sales, but the bands that play, the door staff, the rent, maintenance etc. costs far more than what we earn. I think if you intend to run a small club like this one in a small place (this town has 50000 inhabitants) you need to ask for funds to run the place, and find a bunch of volunteers. You wouldn't run something like this alone....

If you would be interested in knowing more about the club, send me a PM. If anyone else that reads this have a nice band (mainly in the genres jazz, funk, soul or latin) and is going to tour in Europe in the autumn, feel free to contact me as well. We have still some open dates in the autumn that need to be filled....

I'm not too far off if I say this is one of the top 5 jazzclubs in Finland. Practically every major jazz act in Finland schedule a gig in our club when planning their tours...

We've had names like Peter Erskine playing here as well, sided by local musicians, and a bunchload of other names that are big in this part of the world. The Swedes on this forum might recognize the names Nils Landgren, Janne Schaffer, Georg Riedel and Per Lindvall, to name a few. Last year's best act in my opinion was the Swedish/Norwegian jazz group Jazz Kamikaze, they're worth checking out...

whoatherechunk · #8 08-03-2008, 04:22 PM

Yea I understand what you're saying but basically there aren't any venues that actually give a flying **** about music at all. If you would live here you would know what I'm talking about. Even those who are sinking under quick aren't even doing well on the business aspect of being a bar/grill/coffee shop etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

This sounds like a plan for failure. Why should there be a venue devoted to musicians? Are there venues dedicated to bar staff?

A good buisiness is dedicated to making a profit. A Bar/venue acheives this by the secondary objective of being dedicated to the AUDIENCE. Musicians are the employees. If getting good music in brings in paying customers, then you have good music - if bad music brings in an audience, then a good venue has bad music.

If you want to make a venue FOR musicians, it'll be a hangout for your friends, and little more. If an amazing band clears the bar in seconds, then booking them isn't a good business decision - being "dedicated to musicians" will get you closed down fast.

You need to operate a business by working out how you're going to make money. Anything else is a very expensive undulgence. You'll have a great rep with all the local bands, but you'll be homeless and bankrupt.

Deacon_Blues · #9 08-04-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

This sounds like a plan for failure. Why should there be a venue devoted to musicians? Are there venues dedicated to bar staff?

A good business is dedicated to making a profit. A Bar/venue achieves this by the secondary objective of being dedicated to the AUDIENCE. Musicians are the employees. If getting good music in brings in paying customers, then you have good music - if bad music brings in an audience, then a good venue has bad music.

If you want to make a venue FOR musicians, it'll be a hangout for your friends, and little more. If an amazing band clears the bar in seconds, then booking them isn't a good business decision - being "dedicated to musicians" will get you closed down fast.

You need to operate a business by working out how you're going to make money. Anything else is a very expensive undulgence. You'll have a great rep with all the local bands, but you'll be homeless and bankrupt.

He talked about a non-profit music venue. With the right people, with the right will to make things happen, it can work out. I also know about similar efforts that didn't work out for some reason. It's not easy to get people working for free, and there's a lot of work to do. It's not only about arranging concerts and sell beer, you have to have all permits in order and make sure you're doing everything legally. It could easily employ one person full-time to run a club like this, but so far our club have managed without one. At our annual club meeting in the spring we discussed the option to employ one person to take care of the everyday routine work that needs to be done to run the club, but so far we haven't made any decisions about it.

Check out our website if you want to: http://www.doobop.fi/
There's a lot of stuff still missing from the pages (especially about the backline and equipment), but there is at least some info there.

whoatherechunk · #10 08-04-2008, 09:58 PM

Deacon Blues: You are just awesome man! I really wish I could be part of something that's even minimally related to what you're involved in. I'll be sending you a PM soon so I can learn more from you. Thanks!

Robert B · #11 08-05-2008, 05:14 AM

These folks may be able to help you with the planning and preparation that would be involved:

http://www.score.org/index.html

Good luck!

Deacon_Blues · #12 08-05-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoatherechunk

Deacon Blues: You are just awesome man! I really wish I could be part of something that's even minimally related to what you're involved in. I'll be sending you a PM soon so I can learn more from you. Thanks!

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm glad if I can be of any help to you.

jive1 · #13 08-05-2008, 08:07 AM

Keep in mind that the laws in Finland may be different than the US when it comes to this. Even the local laws differ from county to county in the US and could make an endeavor like this difficult.

As far as being non-profit, you may still need to invest sums of money into it. But, it might make it easier to seek funding through grants, etc.

The problem with ventures like these is that is easy to see the benefit and the fun involved around it, but not the liabilities. Managing liability is a big part of running a venue such as night club. You have health and fire codes to deal with. There are licenses for liquor and sometimes dancing and/or live music. You have insurance to pay for. There are noise ordinances, and maximum occupancy laws. If you have an all-ages venue, then you may have a curfew to deal with. And the list goes on and on.

The hardest part of this business is that you have customers who can ruin your business. A drug bust at your venue can result the cops hanging around more, and scaring away customers. An underage drinker with a fake ID could cause you to lose your liquor license or force you to close shop for a few days. And if you are dealing with a grant, make sure you know the terms of it because incidents like the above could cause you to lose your grant and/or repay them.

Deacon_Blues · #14 08-05-2008, 02:56 PM

You're absolutely right in what you're saying, jive. There's very much more to it that you would think of at a first glance.

Anyway, getting the permits for everything is one thing that you could rather easily get done I think. To find an audience that regularly come to the club is a different story. You need to be good at advertising (which costs money) and you need to get the right artists that the audience wants to see, and the venue also need to be in the right place. We're happy to have our venue next to the city square so the people find they're way here easily. However, there have been times we've had a foreign band here to play, and three people have shown up. That happens easily if you miss the deadlines for the newspaper advertisements....

So... it's definitely not an easy thing to get a club like this up and running and stay that way for any longer periods, but it is possible. That was pretty much the point with my first post, in contradiction to the first posts in this thread. I wich there were more clubs like this one in the world.

McHaven · #15 08-05-2008, 03:14 PM

So what I'm hearing is, my band should cross El Paso off the tour agenda until your venue is up in running?

I'd also love to run a venue someday, but it has to be incredibly tough work. More power to you for looking into trying it out. You open it, and we'll play for gas

Also, I had no idea you were only 19. You carry yourself well on the forums, especially effects

bluestarbass · #16 08-05-2008, 03:45 PM

Ive known many a club owner and I think all of them would agree with what I'm about to say. The quickest way to make a million dollars with a music venue is to start with 2 million.

You say you want to help out musicians. I really dont want to shoot down your dreams, but musicians are flakey people. Money comes first. No sucessful club has ever catered to musicians. They cater to their clientle. Ive actually looked into this several times. Its an enormous undertaking, and most venues fail rather quickly. I'm not saying dont do it, but why not learn while its someone else's dime. Go work the door for a while at a decent club, and youll learn alot.

whoatherechunk · #17 08-05-2008, 04:20 PM

What's going on McHaven? Thanks for the kind words. Well this whole venue thing is definitely a farfetched idea but I hope I can make it work out in the future. As for your band, if you are coming into El Paso you should let me know what plans you guys have because many of our venues truly suck. I'm not trying to deviate you guys from coming here but many shows sometimes end up being cancelled or somehow turning into utter ****. If you guys are interested in playing here let me know and I'll give you my ideas on where your band can play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHaven

So what I'm hearing is, my band should cross El Paso off the tour agenda until your venue is up in running?

I'd also love to run a venue someday, but it has to be incredibly tough work. More power to you for looking into trying it out. You open it, and we'll play for gas

Also, I had no idea you were only 19. You carry yourself well on the forums, especially effects

MakiSupaStar · #18 08-07-2008, 10:04 PM

Start collecting phone numbers and names now, so that when you're older and this idea is more solidified you'll have a good network of people to start with. Good luck.

scootron · #19 08-07-2008, 10:24 PM

One possible way to get some experience...we have a venue here in our very small town (music only, no bar or restaurant, only open on Saturday nights). They used to offer only country music, bluegrass or gospel. I went to the owner and made a deal with him to give me every 5th Saturday to put on a Rock & Roll night showcasing local talent. He provided the venue, I did everything else...talent, promotion, the whole bit.

So far we have had two very successful shows, and have rekindled an interest in the local music scene. Local bands have started to spring up. Our next show will be a "blues jam" type show, and musicians from as far as 100 miles away have already asked to participate.

So, my point is that if you can find a theatre or other venue with open dates there locally, you may be able to start small by sponsoring some rock or blues or jazz or metal nights. It can teach you a lot of the do's and don'ts about putting a show together, working with bands, promotion, etc.

Stumbo · #20 08-07-2008, 10:27 PM

Non-profits are an IRS approved business that works in the public interest. There are also state requirements. There are many issues involved with setting up a non-profit, especially certain reporting requirements and must be done at specific times. An accountant who's familiar with non-profits would be a great help in all of this.

Non-profits = non-taxable = Tax exempt. All business' need to make a profit to continue.

Links:

Basic Info
http://www.wikihow.com/Set-up-a-Non-Profit-Organization

I would also suggest taking some business classes.

Amazon.com has many books on the topic:
http://yp.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_?ur...profit&x=0&y=0

I.R.S.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/content...=96986,00.html

As far as "starting" with a non-profit. Do you mean you'll turn it into a for-profit enterprise later?

That doesn't happen. If you close down a non-profit, your assets must be passed on to another non-profit. You can't take home stuff where no tax has been paid on it. Also, you can only take money out of a non-profit by paying yourself a reasonable salary.

You really don't know what you don't know. I'm only referring to the organizational side of the deal, let alone running a venue, etc. You'll need to get volunteers, do fund raising, etc. Putting a bunch of money into something is not what will make it successful. You'll need a detailed business plan with a budget. Basically you'll be buying yourself a more than full-time job.

I suggest going to work for a non-profit to see what's happening. Do some volunteering.

Good luck.

All, IMO/IME: YMMV.