succeeding at work - any tips?

[Fishheadjoe]

Originally Posted by bolophonic

Oh, don't even get me started... the guy was a superb technician, but a horrible boss. When he effectively stopped showing up, I explained to him that he was going to not only lose his investment on training me, but that I would become his competition AND he would have to do the work himself when I was no longer his employee.

Of course I demanded and received periodic raises, but never to the level that would have been appropriate for the dedication and expertise he was getting. His compromise for helping with the workload was to hire another technician for me to train and then lay me off (mercifully) once that guy was proficient.

After six months, the other technician left to manage a larger, more professional shop. The original boss is floundering as his former tech has already siphoned off several clients. I am taking time off as a full-time parent to my son and there is a orthopedic technician position waiting for me when I am ready.

Well, if you had come to see me while you were still employed, I would have told you that you have already stayed too long in that job...
You now know through experience what to look for with your next employer.... so when the hair on your neck stands up while at your next position, you will know why and what to do.
Learn to thrive in grey!
And congrats on spending time with your child... that's time you can't get back! Far more rewarding then working for a stiff like you were.
Fishheadjoe

[bolophonic]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Well, if you had come to see me while you were still employed, I would have told you that you have already stayed too long in that job...
You now know through experience what to look for with your next employer.... so when the hair on your neck stands up while at your next position, you will know why and what to do.
Learn to thrive in grey!
And congrats on spending time with your child... that's time you can't get back! Far more rewarding then working for a stiff like you were.
Fishheadjoe

Thankfully I only had to put up with it long enough to get my foot in the door of a new career.

Staying home with the baby is far more rewarding for a 110% job!

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by aborgman

"From time to time".

What about the guy that wants to be the best design engineer possible, but has zero desire at all to manage anyone? You know - the guy who got an engineering degree and not an MBA on purpose.

We call those "Technical Sector Experts" and they make extremely good money. Their charge out rate is somewhere near $200/hour. Our company has two streams that you can go in your career, project management and Tech Expert. It seems to work very well.

lowsound

[Old Joe]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

We call those "Technical Sector Experts" and they make extremely good money. Their charge out rate is somewhere near $200/hour. Our company has two streams that you can go in your career, project management and Tech Expert. It seems to work very well.

lowsound

That's it! I'm moving to Canada.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by Old Joe

That's it! I'm moving to Canada.

Charge out is roughly 3x what you make hourly :/ Still really good money though. That is also something that you need 15+ years experience to be at.

lowsound

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

It's one thing to bemoan the way the job market works, the ways it has changed, and call it exploitive and unfair -- all of which may be true -- and another to roll up your sleeves and ask, "how do I stay ahead of the changes, so that I'm not the one who gets left behind?"

I agree.

I just disagree with the folks who claim that because you can quit and go get another job, the market isn't exploitative and unfair.

That may just be the way it is, and we may have to deal with it - but that doesn't make it a good thing or something we shouldn't attempt to do away with.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by aborgman

I agree.

I just disagree with the folks who claim that because you can quit and go get another job, the market isn't exploitative and unfair.

That may just be the way it is, and we may have to deal with it - but that doesn't make it a good thing or something we shouldn't attempt to do away with.

This.

[Old Joe]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

Charge out is roughly 3x what you make hourly :/ Still really good money though. That is also something that you need 15+ years experience to be at.

lowsound

I am at 10 years so almost there.

I've considered moving to Canada for a while now but my wife hates the cold weather. Our company has an office in Montreal too so it wouldn't be a hard thing to do. Still, family comes first.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by Old Joe

I am at 10 years so almost there.

I've considered moving to Canada for a while now but my wife hates the cold weather. Our company has an office in Montreal too so it wouldn't be a hard thing to do. Still, family comes first.

Montreal is an expensive city to live in, but very cool. What industry are you in? Engineering?

lowsound

[Axtman]

Speaking of "above and beyond the call of duty". I have worked at three separate companies where where teams pulled all nighters and worked weekends only to have 1/2 the team laid off the next week when the project was completed.

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by Axtman

Speaking of "above and beyond the call of duty". I have worked at three separate companies where where teams pulled all nighters and worked weekends only to have 1/2 the team laid off the next week when the project was completed.

Oh quit your whining. Just go out and reinvent yourself. Don't you know that's just how business works?

[Fishheadjoe]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Oh quit your whining. Just go out and reinvent yourself. Don't you know that's just how business works?

I think the point here is not to try and change the world by yourself... is it a perfect world? Does every aspect of your life conform to your particular morals or beliefs... probabaly not.
Knowing your enemy and working their weaknesses is IMHO much better then claiming wow is me...
Work the system to your advantage when you can.. keep your eyes peeled so when the walls are about to crash, they hit someone else.
Fishheadjoe

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

keep your eyes peeled so when the walls are about to crash, they hit someone else.

Fishheadjoe

I just lol'ed. That's a great business mantra.

So nobody has been able to give me an example as to why doing just your own job is unreasonable. Management is always going to push, and the workers are going push back. It's like the story of the mule. If you pull tightly, the mule sits and pulls back. If you loosen up the reins, he walks.

Business owners want their employees to be vested emotionally in the success of the company. (while having the work ethic of a partner or owner). News flash: The only way that's going to happen is if you treat them and compensate them like a partner or owner.

If you push them to the brink and make them miserable, they won't care if your business fails. There's another underappreciated, overworked job down the line.

The beatings will continue until morale improves!

So kiddies, just do your job. It'll benefit you and the guy sitting next to you.FWIW I'm not anti-management, just anti-hypocrisy.

@ Munji. I think we have very like mindset. I too have had to have my boss in his office to "fine tune" him.

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

I just lol'ed. That's a great business mantra.

So nobody has been able to give me an example as to why doing just your own job is unreasonable. Management is always going to push, and the workers are going push back. It's like the story of the mule. If you pull tightly, the mule sits and pulls back. If you loosen up the reins, he walks.

Business owners want their employees to be vested emotionally in the success of the company. (while having the work ethic of a partner or owner). News flash: The only way that's going to happen is if you treat them and compensate them like a partner or owner.

If you push them to the brink and make them miserable, they won't care if your business fails. There's another underappreciated, overworked job down the line.

The beatings will continue until morale improves!

So kiddies, just do your job. It'll benefit you and the guy sitting next to you.FWIW I'm not anti-management, just anti-hypocrisy.

@ Munji. I think we have very like mindset. I too have had to have my boss in his office to "fine tune" him.

I agree with a lot here. Employers do push for employees to "be part of the family" and show "loyalty" and "commitment" when the company doesn't treat THEM like family nor show any loyalty or commitment to them. This was really the basis of my earlier posts; if companies show no loyalty to employees, there's no need for employees to show loyalty to companies. That era is gone. If the company can exploit the workers, the workers can exploit the company, collecting experience and contacts and a solid track record that can boost them toward the next step in a career - a promotion within the same company, a jump to a different company, or going into business for themselves.

But I think for a lot of people, the expectation is that they can "just do their job," not learn any new skills or take on new responsibilities, and still collect raises and expect their job to be there for them forever. That might work if the economy never shifted, but the economy is constantly in flux, and that approach, from everything I can see, is just begging for a pink slip sooner or later.

[spade2you]

I have been the very loyal and reliable type. Nobody has ever given a crap about that. I'm simply expected to go above and beyond. No reward, only punishment if I fall short.

[baba]

I've been a single contributor, supervisor, manager, and director in the tech industry, so I've seen the struggle from all sides. To add to what has been touched on, there is a constant balance act between pushing your employees and not overdoing it to the point of morale degradation. As a manager part of your job is to push your people to perform, which at times leads to employees accomplishing things they never thought they could. This is good for both parties. Equally important is having your finger on the pulse of your employees and their workload so you know when they are drowning.

That said, if you are effectively managing your people like this, you have a very clear picture of who can accomplish what in terms of mental/physical capacity, work ethic, ownership, leading abilities, etc. This of course has a direct impact on how your stack rank your people, who gets raises, who is promoted, and unfortunately who is let go first when there are layoffs.

Do not be the guy at the bottom of the work ethic pile. Most would rather have a conscientious employee with a strong work ethic but less experience/knowledge than an experienced employee with attitude issues that says "that's not my job."

Oh yeah, and yes. Employers (especially large ones) generally do not care about you at all. You are a number. It's the sad reality.

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

I agree with a lot here. Employers do push for employees to "be part of the family" and show "loyalty" and "commitment" when the company doesn't treat THEM like family nor show any loyalty or commitment to them. This was really the basis of my earlier posts; if companies show no loyalty to employees, there's no need for employees to show loyalty to companies. That era is gone. If the company can exploit the workers, the workers can exploit the company, collecting experience and contacts and a solid track record that can boost them toward the next step in a career - a promotion within the same company, a jump to a different company, or going into business for themselves.

But I think for a lot of people, the expectation is that they can "just do their job," not learn any new skills or take on new responsibilities, and still collect raises and expect their job to be there for them forever. That might work if the economy never shifted, but the economy is constantly in flux, and that approach, from everything I can see, is just begging for a pink slip sooner or later.

I was talking about work that is completely unrelated to your job that only benefits the company. Such as the example of an office worker in the mailroom or the guy that started a thread (not sure if you read it) about getting stuck doing his boss' side project after company time.

Another one is getting twice the workload because you're picking up the slack for someone else.

There's nothing wrong with staying ahead of the game and making yourself more marketable. Just don't let a company manipulate you.

Baba pretty much sums it up. We're just a number.

[Rickengeezer]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

I was talking about work that is completely unrelated to your job that only benefits the company. Such as the example of an office worker in the mailroom or the guy that started a thread (not sure if you read it) about getting stuck doing his boss' side project after company time.

I'm pretty sure most hiring decisions are based on what "only benefits the company", and not as a favor to the employee. Of course, there's always the "brother-in-law", but those are the exceptions and not the rule.

If a manager decides that something vital in the mailroom needs to go out that day, and the mailroom person is sick, then they have to decide how best to get that covered. Somebody is going to have to do it--that's life. I personally wouldn't pick a pregnant woman to cover if the job involved lifting boxes, but I'd have to figure out some way to get it done as a manager; the job of the manager is to determine priorities and act on them as best they can. If that decision is greeted with "not my job", then if things get tight later, who do you think will be the first to be let go--someone who pitches in when needed, or someone who refuses and reads you their job description (which probably has a clause in it that says "and other duties as needed", by the way)?

If some manager has an employee working for them on a side (non-company related) project as a condition of employment, I'd terminate the manager immediately.

[Fishheadjoe]

Originally Posted by baba

I've been a single contributor, supervisor, manager, and director in the tech industry, so I've seen the struggle from all sides. To add to what has been touched on, there is a constant balance act between pushing your employees and not overdoing it to the point of morale degradation. As a manager part of your job is to push your people to perform, which at times leads to employees accomplishing things they never thought they could. This is good for both parties. Equally important is having your finger on the pulse of your employees and their workload so you know when they are drowning.

That said, if you are effectively managing your people like this, you have a very clear picture of who can accomplish what in terms of mental/physical capacity, work ethic, ownership, leading abilities, etc. This of course has a direct impact on how your stack rank your people, who gets raises, who is promoted, and unfortunately who is let go first when there are layoffs.

Do not be the guy at the bottom of the work ethic pile. Most would rather have a conscientious employee with a strong work ethic but less experience/knowledge than an experienced employee with attitude issues that says "that's not my job."

Oh yeah, and yes. Employers (especially large ones) generally do not care about you at all. You are a number. It's the sad reality.

You can teach a skill, you can't teach desire.
Fishheadjoe

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by Rickengeezer

I'm pretty sure most hiring decisions are based on what "only benefits the company", and not as a favor to the employee. Of course, there's always the "brother-in-law", but those are the exceptions and not the rule.

If a manager decides that something vital in the mailroom needs to go out that day, and the mailroom person is sick, then they have to decide how best to get that covered. Somebody is going to have to do it--that's life. I personally wouldn't pick a pregnant woman to cover if the job involved lifting boxes, but I'd have to figure out some way to get it done as a manager; the job of the manager is to determine priorities and act on them as best they can. If that decision is greeted with "not my job", then if things get tight later, who do you think will be the first to be let go--someone who pitches in when needed, or someone who refuses and reads you their job description (which probably has a clause in it that says "and other duties as needed", by the way)?

If some manager has an employee working for them on a side (non-company related) project as a condition of employment, I'd terminate the manager immediately.

Hiring decisions are a 2 way negotiation. (or should be) The interviewer should be trying to get what benefits the company, the interviewer what benefits him/her.

All job requirements should be told to the employee prior to hiring. In other words, you should have a contingency plan in effect in case that your mailroom worker does call in sick (It happens often enough that you should expect it), otherwise you are taking a reactive rather than a proactive approach.

May I suggest the next 3 employees you hire, tell them specifically. "If the mailroom guy calls in sick, you WILL be placed in the mailroom" This does 2 things. It spells out specifically what is required of them, and gives them the ability to bargain for a better wage based on the added duties. They also cannot get mad when it happens, otherwise, if you throw that in their lap after the fact, they should have the right to say. "It's not my job, it's not what I agreed to when I took the position"

As far as I'm concerned, the latter is just poor management on your part. Lack of a contingency plan and lack of communication.

In the event that something unforseen should come up, do you know who should be doing it? YOU. Stop delegating your job to your subordinates. Bad planning on your part does not suggest an emergency on my part.

You are the manager. The captain of the ship if you will. Stop passing the buck. YOU agreed to the job. It is NOT mine. Tell me what is expected of me upfront. I will do it 100% If you forgot, oh well. You do it. This will not only earn you the respect of your employees, but your bosses as well. Of course, all in my humble opinion

In the other thread it was actually the owner of the company that was taking advantage of the worker, not a supervisor.