succeeding at work - any tips?

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by Rickengeezer

buh-bye and good riddance.

Indeed

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

The CEO for my company has worked at the same place for over 20 years. Last year, he made somewhere north of $4,000,000. I'll call him tomorrow and let him know he's lost his drive.

Mind telling us what you do for a living?

Really? Is this where this thread is going next? Ok my friend, I'll play your silly little game. I'm a mechanic. A greasemonkey if you will. If you want to define success by wealth, that's your choice. Personally I think it's sad and pathetic.

If you want to define it by the amount of kids t-ball, soccer games, and plays I've attended, chances are I'm exponentially richer than your CEO will ever be.

Since I see this thread is going to go south really quickly, and I believe I've made my point, I'm out.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Really? Is this where this thread is going next? Ok my friend, I'll play your silly little game. I'm a mechanic. A greasemonkey if you will. If you want to define success by wealth, that's your choice. Personally I think it's sad and pathetic.

If you want to define it by the amount of kids t-ball, soccer games, and plays I've attended, chances are I'm exponentially richer than your CEO will ever be.

Since I see this thread is going to go south really quickly, and I believe I've made my point, I'm out.

You win. Those Corporate CEOs will never keep it real like you do.

[hgiles]

Keep score. And sell yourself. Everyday.

[sandmangeck]

A great attitude and drive are indispensable. I also thrive in training for as many positions within my department. I have always been successful with my career implementing these ways.

Negative attitudes are like cancer in my field. No one likes working with people who bitch and complain all the time.

Also being early to work and not calling off are helpful.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by FreakyStyley69

This...

I know my worth. I KNOW I work smarter harder and more efficient than everyone around me, I am not your slave, I do not NEED you to makes living. If you can't appreciate me 1. As a human being 2. One of the best workers you will ever see. I don't need to be there.

Talk down to me one time, it'll be your loss. I refuse to let a JOB, Yes it's JUST A JOB, dictate my life.

_{... ouch ouch ouch ...}

[two fingers]

Seems as though Mr.Truktek2 has fallen victim to the story fed him by others who have been pissed on in the past. Many, particularly here in the states, seem to have the same view of "rich corporate fat cats". In their view, there's no way they can have happy family lives. There's no way that could have reached their level of success without taking out a few thousand "little guys" on the way up. They certainly must have cheated and stolen their way to the top. Everyone hates them but they don't care as long as they get all the marbles.

What a mess. And those very same people will jump all over you if you generalize when describing any other group. How enlightened they must be.

He is a rare talent indeed if he can afford to have such attitudes towards his work. I didn't realize mechanics were in such short supply. He simply must be a truck whisperer or something. We should all take note of his genius and bask in his glory. He has it all figured out. If it weren't for the man beating him down he would be as monetarily wealthy as he is "rich" in T-ball games.

If you walked around MY business with a "you need me more than I need you" attitude, we would soon test the theory to see if you are correct (you'd be canned). But I guess that's why I am an evil CEO, right?

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Indeed




Really? Is this where this thread is going next? Ok my friend, I'll play your silly little game. I'm a mechanic. A greasemonkey if you will. If you want to define success by wealth, that's your choice. Personally I think it's sad and pathetic.

If you want to define it by the amount of kids t-ball, soccer games, and plays I've attended, chances are I'm exponentially richer than your CEO will ever be.

Since I see this thread is going to go south really quickly, and I believe I've made my point, I'm out.

Well, that explains some of the disconnect here. The people I employed have careers. And one of the things we've recognized in the over 40 years we've been in business is the importance of family. When the two founders put it together, they both had kids into soccer, wrestling, baseball and all the rest. Their view was that one would cover for the other if one was going to a kid's soccer game. Even though we've grown to over 10 offices, we've worked very hard at maintaining that corporate culture through our managers.

We give great latitude to our employees for family issues. I'll give you a couple examples. I hired a young engineer and, after he had worked there for only a month or so, he said his mother had terminal cancer and he had to resign so he could take care of her until she passed. He asked if he could re-apply for his job when it was all settled. I said, "No. Just come back. Your job will be waiting."

During the huge fires of 2004 in our county, one of our employees' house burned down. The company immediately bought new clothes, sundries and supplies for the family. The employee asked if he could take vacation or sick time to deal with the issue. I said, "No. Just have someone fill out your time sheet with admin time for as long as you need." I said the same thing to a young woman whose mother died trying to get their horses off the ranch during the fires. I and the other owners attended her funeral.

So you can sit there and make generalizations about management all day, but your perspective is very narrow and cynical. You don't have to work for a-holes (I think we agree on that).

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Seems as though Mr.Truktek2 has fallen victim to the story fed him by others who have been pissed on in the past. Many, particularly here in the states, seem to have the same view of "rich corporate fat cats". In their view, there's no way they can have happy family lives. There's no way that could have reached their level of success without taking out a few thousand "little guys" on the way up. They certainly must have cheated and stolen their way to the top. Everyone hates them but they don't care as long as they get all the marbles.

What a mess. And those very same people will jump all over you if you generalize when describing any other group. How enlightened they must be.

He is a rare talent indeed if he can afford to have such attitudes towards his work. I didn't realize mechanics were in such short supply. He simply must be a truck whisperer or something. We should all take note of his genius and bask in his glory. He has it all figured out. If it weren't for the man beating him down he would be as monetarily wealthy as he is "rich" in T-ball games.

If you walked around MY business with a "you need me more than I need you" attitude, we would soon test the theory to see if you are correct (you'd be canned). But I guess that's why I am an evil CEO, right?

CEO is a four-letter word these days, thanks to some major criminals who held that title.

[MJ5150]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

During the huge fires of 2004 in our county, one of our employees' house burned down. The company immediately bought new clothes, sundries and supplies for the family. The employee asked if he could take vacation or sick time to deal with the issue. I said, "No. Just have someone fill out your time sheet with admin time for as long as you need." I said the same thing to a young woman whose mother died trying to get their horses off the ranch during the fires. I and the other owners attended her funeral.

In the early 2000's, I worked for a construction company like this. About 500 employees in three states. One of our guys needed time off to care for his wife as she battled the final stages of breast cancer, it was terminal. A bunch of employees agreed to donate their vacation time to him so he could be off with her without going broke. The CEO and CFO met with those that volunteered their hours, gave them all their vacation time back and told the employee he would be paid his normal wage while he was off caring for his wife. She eventually died, he came back to work, and last I checked he still worked for the company.

There are plenty of the greedy CEO types out there, that's for sure. There are also plenty like the one I worked for and Munji.

-Mike

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

How does a guy like you motivate a guy like me in your employ?

Okay, I know you were asking Munji, but I'll take a stab at it too. I was briefly a manager, and received a fair amount of supervisory training. Dealing with an excellent employee who doesn't want to advance is an issue that all managers wrestle with. We talked about it in our training, and in discussions at performance review time. There are two problems:

1. As you've noted, the typical incentives involve promotions to levels with more supervisory / leadership duties. Those are also the levels of pay specifically because it's hard to find good people who want to do it.

2. Frankly, upper management considers other issues to be more pressing, especially "high potential" employees who will take a higher level position somewhere else if they aren't taken care of.

The typical outcome is: Don't do anything at all. Let the employee continue doing a good job. On the other hand, the cost of dealing with a "toxic" employee is always assumed to exceed whatever benefit they bring, no matter how skilled they are. That's not a threat, but just describes the reality of running a business. I've witnessed the effect of a toxic employee.

So what've you got for me Munji? I just started at your company Monday. What have you got that will keep me working at your company? What seperates you from any other company?

That sounds like a question to ask before taking the job. Even if you don't specifically ask the question, you can get a good or bad vibe during the interview.

There's only 2 ways you're going to make me happy and keep me. Either make the working enviroment so phenomenal by not overworking and abusing me, or pay me. That's it. It really is that simple.

C'mon your taking too long.....oops I've already started fielding other offers. I guess I'll just take my newfound skills to my next employer. Thanks for the opportunity, I've learned alot, but I really must go now.

If you have realistic expectations about the work environment, then you will probably do OK. The absence of abuse is a reasonable expectation. No manager is perfect, so if you work for me, you'll have to put up with my mistakes. Unless your boss is actually the CEO, you have to assume that things like pay raises come out of a budget, and that your boss is weighing your salary against somebody else's.

It's worth mentioning that very few employees have the kind of mobility that you have, which involves a combination of a portable skill and living in a place where there are probably multiple employers within your desired commuting radius.

It's not quite so easy for the rest of us to job-hop. I've been with the same employer for 14 years, and have been treated quite well. For me, the prospect of getting promoted was in fact a good source of motivation, plus the fact that I simply enjoy the variety and challenge that I get from accepting tasks that are outside of typical job descriptions.

[dullsilver_mike]

After frequent failure to be offered advancement despite excellent performance, I'm becoming convinced that pretending to be a Type A personality is one of the best things you can do. It doesn't matter how intelligent or talented you are, if you're a laid-back and less-competitive Type B person, no one thinks you're suited for advancement.

That might even be a fair assessment of the personality types. I'm starting to actually believe that, toward the top of the chain, aggressive ambition is consistently more useful than carefully considered ideas, but I'm not entirely convinced of it yet. If I go a few more years without some better career opportunities I'll convert and just live every day in defiance of my natural disposition.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Ok Munji, you're successful in your field. I see that. I'm also quite sure that success came from long hours and weekends. I would think it safe to say, also at the expense of your personal and family time. Not everyone wants to be management. My time at home is more important than my time at work. You've made your decision, I've made mine.

That said, I put forth this question:

How does a guy like you motivate a guy like me in your employ?

No offense taken. I missed this question earlier. The first thing I do is find out what motivates you. Apparently not money, so maybe flexibility of hours. We could sit down and figure out whether the company could accomodate your needs. If so, great. If not, we look for compromise. If none can be reached, we part ways. The professionals (engineers and scientists) are all salaried and have considerable flexibility in their schedules. We try to be accommodating to the clerical and technical hourly staff, too.

As far as sacrifices, I addressed those in a previous post. My company says family first. Mine was no exception. We've always believed that happy employees stick around for the long haul, and it's worked for us for over 40 years. Our drafting supervisor has been there for 34 years - we hired him in 1978. I think our senior word processor is getting close to 30 years at the company. We have technicians who've been there over 25 years. They have a tough job, too. I worked there 24 years, but had an 11-year hiatus right in the middle of that (that's 35 years in the same business). I'm one of many employees who left and came back.

I'm not saying every company is like mine. As you can surely tell, I'm proud and protective of it. As employees, people owe it to themselves to find employers who treat them well. There are many out there. It may have been you who said that interviews work both ways.

As far as "what I've got for you," first, a friendly place to work. If you're not friendly, you'll be gone soon. I have a fair wage. You can probably get more somewhere else, but you won't be as happy there. I have opportunities for you to get training. I have good a benefits package. I have the desire for you to grow in your occupation, and the means to help you do it.

But equally important, what do you have for me? Frankly, you're not the kind of person I'd hire in the first place - you're already looking for something else. (Hence, seven jobs in 20 years.)

BTW, in my 25 years in management, I raised my voice to only one person - my CFO at the time. It's the only type of communication he understood. He apologized the next day.

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Okay, I know you were asking Munji, but I'll take a stab at it too. I was briefly a manager, and received a fair amount of supervisory training. Dealing with an excellent employee who doesn't want to advance is an issue that all managers wrestle with. We talked about it in our training, and in discussions at performance review time. There are two problems:

1. As you've noted, the typical incentives involve promotions to levels with more supervisory / leadership duties. Those are also the levels of pay specifically because it's hard to find good people who want to do it.

2. Frankly, upper management considers other issues to be more pressing, especially "high potential" employees who will take a higher level position somewhere else if they aren't taken care of.

The typical outcome is: Don't do anything at all. Let the employee continue doing a good job. On the other hand, the cost of dealing with a "toxic" employee is always assumed to exceed whatever benefit they bring, no matter how skilled they are. That's not a threat, but just describes the reality of running a business. I've witnessed the effect of a toxic employee.



That sounds like a question to ask before taking the job. Even if you don't specifically ask the question, you can get a good or bad vibe during the interview.



If you have realistic expectations about the work environment, then you will probably do OK. The absence of abuse is a reasonable expectation. No manager is perfect, so if you work for me, you'll have to put up with my mistakes. Unless your boss is actually the CEO, you have to assume that things like pay raises come out of a budget, and that your boss is weighing your salary against somebody else's.

It's worth mentioning that very few employees have the kind of mobility that you have, which involves a combination of a portable skill and living in a place where there are probably multiple employers within your desired commuting radius.

It's not quite so easy for the rest of us to job-hop. I've been with the same employer for 14 years, and have been treated quite well. For me, the prospect of getting promoted was in fact a good source of motivation, plus the fact that I simply enjoy the variety and challenge that I get from accepting tasks that are outside of typical job descriptions.

Thank yoy Fdeck for an enlightening and well though out response.

In hindsight, I should have said "It's been my experience with the companies I worked at" prior to the other statements. I'm sure there are good companies to work for, but it is my belief, that they are getting scarcer and scarcer. I'm not sure if this type of work environment is more prevelant in major cities, but I can tell you, it is indeed more cut throat. (at least in my experience)

[JimmyM]

Hilarious thread! Absolutely hysterical! I think it's so funny that people with bad attitudes struggle with getting anywhere in their jobs. I used to be one my own self. I hated every job I ever had, I resented people who did better than me, and I never worked at one place for longer than 3 years.

Long story short...I woke up one day and discovered that the problem was me and my negative attitude. So I started working on it, and now I'm a pretty happy person who goes to work feeling good most of the time and I do my job as good as I possibly can, and it's paying off. Positivity spreads just as easily as negativity. So you guys on here blaming everyone but yourselves really should consider taking a good hard look at yourselves, because if people can spot your bad attitudes from a couple of posts on Talkbass, think how people in your real life feel being around you.

[Fishheadjoe]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Indeed




Really? Is this where this thread is going next? Ok my friend, I'll play your silly little game. I'm a mechanic. A greasemonkey if you will. If you want to define success by wealth, that's your choice. Personally I think it's sad and pathetic.

If you want to define it by the amount of kids t-ball, soccer games, and plays I've attended, chances are I'm exponentially richer than your CEO will ever be.

Since I see this thread is going to go south really quickly, and I believe I've made my point, I'm out.

Why not open your own shop? Obviously you don't feel appreciated or motivated. Running your own business would provide a different prespective and allow you to run your shop in the manner best suited for you.
Consider this (and I don't know if you work in a small two bay shop or a monster shop with many bays and mechanics) that the owner of that shop may well have leveraged his home, his personal investments and the financial stability of his or her family, in order to provide a platform for him/her to make money and in turn provide you, the employee with a steady income.. That's quite a leap of faith, especially in today's economic reality.
Pretty easy to complain and moan, where the only investment you make toward the company is your time and experience.
Just a thought I had catching up on this thread.
Fishheadjoe

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

Really? Is this where this thread is going next? Ok my friend, I'll play your silly little game. I'm a mechanic. A greasemonkey if you will. If you want to define success by wealth, that's your choice. Personally I think it's sad and pathetic.

If you want to define it by the amount of kids t-ball, soccer games, and plays I've attended, chances are I'm exponentially richer than your CEO will ever be.

Since I see this thread is going to go south really quickly, and I believe I've made my point, I'm out.

Monetary wealth isn't everything, you're right.

But that doesn't mean being a CEO, for instance, leaves you with less time to spend with your family. Most tradesmen I know who have children dedicate large amounts of spare time to doing homers to help pay the bills.

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Why not open your own shop? Obviously you don't feel appreciated or motivated. Running your own business would provide a different prespective and allow you to run your shop in the manner best suited for you.
Consider this (and I don't know if you work in a small two bay shop or a monster shop with many bays and mechanics) that the owner of that shop may well have leveraged his home, his personal investments and the financial stability of his or her family, in order to provide a platform for him/her to make money and in turn provide you, the employee with a steady income.. That's quite a leap of faith, especially in today's economic reality.
Pretty easy to complain and moan, where the only investment you make toward the company is your time and experience.
Just a thought I had catching up on this thread.
Fishheadjoe

This.
At what point do you lose interest in a thread?

[Fishheadjoe]

Originally Posted by Truktek2

This.
At what point do you lose interest in a thread?

Sorry, I was trying to be constructive, apparently I was not taken that way.
Fishheadjoe

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Sorry, I was trying to be constructive, apparently I was not taken that way.
Fishheadjoe

Apparently he thought you were a greedy CEO.

[Fishheadjoe]

Funny enough, I am a CEO!
Yah, the CEO and sole "employee" of the company! LOL
After being an employee starting at the bottom, working like a dog for many years (25)eventually becoming middle management, I decided back in April to leverage my experience and knowldge, for myself.
I now work from my home office, eliminated a two hour daily commute, as well as the associated costs, keep all the money I earn and have the "ear" of the boss at al times!
So far, best decision I've made in a long time... I walk my kids to school (9 and 10) and pick them up, do homework, singing lessons, Cubs, soccer, water polo and get to watch my kids grow up!
Is it a risk, obviously, but, as I tried to point out to TrukteK2, I can do things the way I want and have no one to answer to but myself. (and perhpas my wife if things go sour! LOL)
Fishheadjoe