Sudanese Woman Fined for Pants

[Dr. Cheese]

I have followed this story a bit. I did my disseration research in Sudan almost twenty years ago. The clips I saw on TV, were pretty nostalgic for me, Khartoum doesn't look like it has changed much. Maybe I can get back there again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090907/...sudan_trousers

[Gard]

Doc, so now she's gonna swim better???

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Gard

Doc, so now she's gonna swim better???

I missed that joke, Gard. Sudan is pretty interesting. It was not quite that conservative when I was there, but one could see it coming. Back in 1990, there wre still alot of people who remembered working under the British when the Western influence was much stronger. I think most Sudanese could do without fundamentalism, but in an Islamic society, no one wants to be seen as critical of Islam. The same thing happens in our own society when people are shut up by being called Un-American or upatriotic. Heck, we use religion to beat each other up sometimes too.

[Webtroll]

fined/finned

[Deluge Of Sound]

This is the first time I've heard of anyone being forced to switch nationality in the name of clothing...

[Webtroll]

fined/finned/Finned

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I missed that joke, Gard. Sudan is pretty interesting. It was not quite that conservative when I was there, but one could see it coming. Back in 1990, there wre still alot of people who remembered working under the British when the Western influence was much stronger. I think most Sudanese could do without fundamentalism, but in an Islamic society, no one wants to be seen as critical of Islam. The same thing happens in our own society when people are shut up by being called Un-American or upatriotic. Heck, we use religion to beat each other up sometimes too.

Who is "shut up" here by being called unpatriotic or Un-american? It appears to me in many cases we give those people bigger megaphones. While all societies have cultural differences, to call it the "same thing" when someone gets criticized for speech is far different then legal sanctions, fines, imprisonment, or canning for "not allowed" speech or expression.

[SpamBot]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Who is "shut up" here by being called unpatriotic or Un-american? It appears to me in many cases we give those people bigger megaphones. While all societies have cultural differences, to call it the "same thing" when someone gets criticized for speech is far different then legal sanctions, fines, imprisonment, or canning for "not allowed" speech or expression.

See one of MN's reps, Michelle Bachmann. We have certainly given her a large megaphone

[bassrique]

Thankfully she was spared the flogging.

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I have followed this story a bit. I did my disseration research in Sudan almost twenty years ago. The clips I saw on TV, were pretty nostalgic for me, Khartoum doesn't look like it has changed much. Maybe I can get back there again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090907/...sudan_trousers

Come on now, we're too old for the life of danger anymore.

Originally Posted by famous last words

Yeah, but it's safe in the city...

[WookieeForLife]

Burn her at the stake..............


















Just kidding. Let'em walk nude for all I care.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by bassrique

Thankfully she was spared the flogging.




Come on now, we're too old for the life of danger anymore.

I did get taken in for a capital crime when I was there but that was straightened out quickly. I did stayed in a hotel that was bombed by terrorists a year earlier, and the secret police questioned me a few times, but other that that, it was cool.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Webtroll

fined/finned/Finned

I see now.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Who is "shut up" here by being called unpatriotic or Un-american? It appears to me in many cases we give those people bigger megaphones. While all societies have cultural differences, to call it the "same thing" when someone gets criticized for speech is far different then legal sanctions, fines, imprisonment, or canning for "not allowed" speech or expression.

I'll not pursue that issue. Don't want to talk US politics. I'll just say I have lived in both societies, and I can see parallels. I can give you a historical parallel in the USA. Progressives in the South could always be shut up, if they were called n****r l***rs. All kinds of stuff from union activity to health and education reform was stunted because of fear of integration. Progressives who did openly support integration were sometimes bombed or run out of town. At the very least, they were ostracized.

[IconBasser]

good for her for fighting it!

[Dr. Cheese]

Really the worst thing about going to Sudan is being a black man with Sudan stamped on your passport when you leave. Until I got a new passport, I really caught the devil when I went to Europe.

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I did get taken in for a capital crime when I was there but that was straightened out quickly. I did stayed in a hotel that was bombed by terrorists a year earlier, and the secret police questioned me a few times, but other that that, it was cool.

Funny, but this carefree attitude puts you in peril of MIA status [Missing Ignorant American]. Your friends there could easily become a liability as the winds change - and winds do shift quickly enough for the boom to headbutt you overboard. So unless you're a middle-aged cat looking for adventure, I'd stay clear.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Really the worst thing about going to Sudan is being a black man with Sudan stamped on your passport when you leave. Until I got a new passport, I really caught the devil when I went to Europe.

Care to go into more detail?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Care to go into more detail?

Folks in the UK & Netherlands treated me like a terrorist suspect. I would be pullled out of line and be subjected to pretty thorough questioning although I felt it was pretty obvious I was an academic.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I'll not pursue that issue. Don't want to talk US politics. I'll just say I have lived in both societies, and I can see parallels. I can give you a historical parallel in the USA. Progressives in the South could always be shut up, if they were called n****r l***rs. All kinds of stuff from union activity to health and education reform was stunted because of fear of integration. Progressives who did openly support integration were sometimes bombed or run out of town. At the very least, they were ostracized.

I'm not talking about forty years ago. Today you are far more likely to be shut up in the US for fear of offending someone (PC) then for being "unpatriotic". Those people get grammy awards, not corporal punishment.

The other non parallel is the obvious bigotry that exists in Islamic law. There is no punishment for offending or blaspheming Christianity, Judaism, or Buddhism in the Moslem world. The only protection against offense applies to Islam.

Folks in the UK & Netherlands treated me like a terrorist suspect. I would be pulled out of line and be subjected to pretty thorough questioning although I felt it was pretty obvious I was an academic.

I'm not surprised, the Sudan was the birthplace of Islamic Terrorism. And it is still a state with a lot of jihadhist activity. OBL considers himself a disciple of Turabi who started unifying violent fundamentalist groups in the early 90's. I'm not saying it was justified, and they certainly should make it clear that your innocent until proven guilty. But the Sudan is probably just as much a "flag" to customs officials as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, or Syria. Plus they probably figured you had contraband in that bass case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_al-Turabi

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by burk48237

I'm not talking about forty years ago. Today you are far more likely to be shut up in the US for fear of offending someone (PC) then for being "unpatriotic". Those people get grammy awards, not corporal punishment.

The other non parallel is the obvious bigotry that exists in Islamic law. There is no punishment for offending or blaspheming Christianity, Judaism, or Buddhism in the Moslem world. The only protection against offense applies to Islam.



I'm not surprised, the Sudan was the birthplace of Islamic Terrorism. And it is still a state with a lot of jihadhist activity. OBL considers himself a disciple of Turabi who started unifying violent fundamentalist groups in the early 90's. I'm not saying it was justified, and they certainly should make it clear that your innocent until proven guilty. But the Sudan is probably just as much a "flag" to customs officials as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, or Syria. Plus they probably figured you had contraband in that bass case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_al-Turabi

I would argue that Egypt with the late Sayyid Qutb is more accurately the birthplace of modern Islamic fundamentalism or terrorism.

I also have never taken a bass to Africa, but I hope I get to the next time I go there.

I never begrudged a cop questioning me. I think some of it went on too long after I made all of things available and invited them to search them. I was never delayed more than ten minutes, even the remote possibility of being taken in is scary, especially when I am person trying to increase knowledge of that part of the world that even law enforcement can use.

I'm glad I didn't follow my original plans and go to Yemen too!