SWAT breaks down the doors for Student Loans?

[burk48237]

I'm a person that usually gives the Police the benefit of the doubt. I realize it's a tough job and for the most part they try to do it right. But one of the things that concerns me is the increasing militarization of Police in the US. Now we have a case where a SWAT team from the Dept. of Education broke down a guys doors in an early mourning invasion, handcuffed him for six hours while they searched his house. Apparently this is because his estranged wife was defaulting on student loans. Wether true or not, there is no level of crime that the GAO (white collar fraud in the dept. of education) would be investigating that requires this level of force to serve a warrant.

STOCKTON, CA - A federal education official Wednesday morning offered little information as to why federal agents raided a Stockton man's home Tuesday.

The resident, Kenneth Wright, does not have a criminal record and he had no reason to believe why what he thought was a S.W.A.T team would be breaking down his door at 6 in the morning.

U.S. Department of Education spokesman Justin Hamilton confirmed for News10 Wednesday morning federal agents with the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), not local S.W.A.T., served the search warrant. Hamilton would not say specifically why the raid took place except that it was part of an ongoing criminal investigation.

Questions surround feds' raid of Stockton home | news10.net

[Jim Nazium]

"U.S. Department of Education spokesman Justin Hamilton confirmed for News10 Wednesday morning federal agents with the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), not local S.W.A.T., served the search warrant. Hamilton would not say specifically why the raid took place except that it was part of an ongoing criminal investigation.

Hamilton said the search was not related to student loans in default as reported in the local media. "

[Mark Latimour]

I can imagine instances of white collar crime where a speed raid would be necessary. For example, cases where you suspeted that evidence destruction may be about to occur.

[echoSE7EN]

Then perhaps it's due to fraudulent student loan claims, or monies collected yet not deserved. It's defrauding the Federal Government (from their point of view).

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

"U.S. Department of Education spokesman Justin Hamilton confirmed for News10 Wednesday morning federal agents with the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), not local S.W.A.T., served the search warrant. Hamilton would not say specifically why the raid took place except that it was part of an ongoing criminal investigation.

Hamilton said the search was not related to student loans in default as reported in the local media. "

Jim, I said "A SWAT team from the Dept of Education". i realize it wasn't local SWAT. I also saw that the Feds denied it was a Student Loan default case. But I consider that a bit irrelevant. This office of the GAO is charged with investigating white collar fraud cases.

Now while I realize some white collar criminals can be violent, neither this man or his estranged wife had any history or violence. SWAT teams should not be invading houses with military weapons looking for embezzlers or loan defaulters. The level of threat associated with the crime doesn't justify the level of force that LE applied. Just knock on the guys door, that's what the police use to do. When LE isn't facing an eminent threat of violence, the use of overwhelming force isn't just overkill, it's unreasonable, and last I heard unreasonable searches are something we are guaranteed freedom from.


My point is that the GAO (a bunch of accountants investigating fraud), shouldn't even have a SWAT team. And if they have one, they'll end up using them wether needed or not.

[Absentia]

That reminds me Salle Mae has been blowing up my phone for the past week I should pay them.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I can imagine instances of white collar crime where a speed raid would be necessary. For example, cases where you suspeted that evidence destruction may be about to occur.

Perhaps, but not a "speed raid" with helmets, flak vests, shotguns and perhaps submachine guns. You can go in fast with a lot less intimidation.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Perhaps, but not a "speed raid" with helmets, flak vests, shotguns and perhaps submachine guns. You can go in fast with a lot less intimidation.

Im not sure I am in a position to know what they thought the threat would be or why they thought that would be appropriate. Perhaps they had good reason for using that approach. Its not inconceivable and I wouldn't like to rush to judgment without knowing the facts.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Im not sure I am in a position to know what they thought the threat would be or why they thought that would be appropriate. Perhaps they had good reason for using that approach. Its not inconceivable and I wouldn't like to rush to judgment without knowing the facts.

Fair enough.

My beef is I'm not sure the investigations arm of the Dept of Education needs SWAT teams. I remember questioning the original requisition (military shotguns for the DOE), It isn't like their isn't plenty of federal law enforcement in the US with those kinds of rescources at their disposal for the very rare time it might be needed. We have the FBI, ATF, and US Marshalls among others. Like I said before, my experience is when they have these kind of teams, they end of using them to justify their existance.

Suppose the guy had firearms? I mean if the cops busted down my door, in the fog of early mourning sleep time, I might fire back. We had a case last week where a veteran was shot by ICE agents in a botched raid. SWAT should be the last guys called and not the first. And nothing I've read so far about this case justifies this level of force.

[FilterFunk]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I can imagine instances of white collar crime where a speed raid would be necessary. For example, cases where you suspeted that evidence destruction may be about to occur.

I'm guessing this doesn't happen to top execs who are suspected of white collar crime, even if the authorities think they might have industrial-strength shredding machines in their homes.

[Arr MiHardies]

Originally Posted by burk48237

last I heard unreasonable searches are something we are guaranteed freedom from.

Last I checked, the Patriot act basically takes away our rights.

[Bassguy61]

Originally Posted by burk48237

Fair enough.

My beef is I'm not sure the investigations arm of the Dept of Education needs SWAT teams. I remember questioning the original requisition (military shotguns for the DOE), It isn't like their isn't plenty of federal law enforcement in the US with those kinds of rescources at their disposal for the very rare time it might be needed. We have the FBI, ATF, and US Marshalls among others. Like I said before, my experience is when they have these kind of teams, they end of using them to justify their existance.

Suppose the guy had firearms? I mean if the cops busted down my door, in the fog of early mourning sleep time, I might fire back. We had a case last week where a veteran was shot by ICE agents in a botched raid. SWAT should be the last guys called and not the first. And nothing I've read so far about this case justifies this level of force.

Thing is, the SWAT team was NOT from Department of Education. The OIG is part of HHS. Whatever they went in looking for, it was not, just as was stated earlier, student loans.

[The Lurker]

"SWAT team" is also sometimes inappropriately used as a catchall term for a specialist group, rather than an actual SWAT unit. People have described me as part of a 'swat team' when I do environmental emergency response work.

I agree that SWAT teams are being overused these days-- some of the cities I'm familiar with have defaulted to using SWAT for any potential confrontation, even serving a capeas writ, where ten years ago they sent a couple of patrol cars and a handful of regular cops. Ok, it sounds all dramatic and special forces-ish, but the problem is police work in a civil society is not interchangeable with military tactics.

The sad thing is, people get killed over stuff like this, when SWAT teams screw up and raid the wrong address or shoot the wrong guy. Consider the Marine in Arizona last month, machine-gunned by a SWAT team that kicked his door in after surviving two tours in Iraq, and who had no criminal record. Sad thing? The SWAT were after the wrong guy; his older brother was the suspect, and there was nothing illegal in the dead guy's house. Worse thing? The cops refused to allow the paramedics in for an hour, during which time the guy bled to death. Then the police started shoveling on the coverup, and now refuse to release any details "for fear of endangering an informant."

Radley Balko's the current prominent expert on overuse of SWAT teams. His stuff is pretty interesting.

[Bassguy61]

Quick update: A copy of the search warrant is available online now. They weren't investigating defaulted student loans. It indicates they were investigating Financial Aid Fraud, Consipracy, Theft of Govenment Funds, False Statments, and Wire Fraud. Given the scope that some of these could entail, using a specialized type of task force doesn't seems as much out of line.

[The Lurker]

Originally Posted by Bassguy61

Quick update: A copy of the search warrant is available online now. They weren't investigating defaulted student loans. It indicates they were investigating Financial Aid Fraud, Consipracy, Theft of Govenment Funds, False Statments, and Wire Fraud. Given the scope that some of these could entail, using a specialized type of task force doesn't seems as much out of line.

Yeah, except the sort of "SWAT team" they send out for that is usually composed of accountants with S&Ws, not guys in body armor with assault rifles.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Bassguy61

Thing is, the SWAT team was NOT from Department of Education. The OIG is part of HHS. Whatever they went in looking for, it was not, just as was stated earlier, student loans.

The GAO investigates fraud involving the Dept of Education, HHS and a few other government agencies. Either way they are dealing with white collar crime cases like medicaid fraud, food stamp fraud, or embezzlement. Rarely do they deal with violent felons. And a Dept. of Education spokesperson was responding to questions about the raid in particular.

Quick update: A copy of the search warrant is available online now. They weren't investigating defaulted student loans. It indicates they were investigating Financial Aid Fraud, Conspiracy, Theft of Govenment Funds, False Statments, and Wire Fraud. Given the scope that some of these could entail, using a specialized type of task force doesn't seems as much out of line.

Yeah, except the sort of "SWAT team" they send out for that is usually composed of accountants with S&Ws, not guys in body armor with assault rifles.

Exactly, It's excessive force, plain and simple.

It's not like they couldn't contact the FBI to administer the warrant if they had proof of violent Felons or serious firearms. My point is that a seperate white collar crime investigation agency in the government 1) isn't needed (why can't the FBI do it?) 2) Certainly doesn't need a SWAT team.

I remember when the shotguns were requisitioned for the DOE (they oversee the GAO), and many asked why are we spending the money. I just don't think we need another bureaucrat with a SWAT team. I suspect we have far to many already.