Taxi driver vs Fight Club

[scorpionldr]

Lately I've been watching these two in alternation, and I must say, fight club plays like taxi driver without the real priority protagonist....anyone agree? I could name several instances of this if i weren't drunk, but I'll be sure to put some validating comments in.

Robert Deniro

Ed Norton

The hardcore of different generations.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Except you're overlooking one fatal difference:

Taxi Driver isn't overrated drivel.

EDIT:
To clarify for anyone who might try,
No, you're not going to convince me that Fight Club is good by telling me to read the book, or to fall further into Chuck Phala-cranksoutbooksonautopilot-nuk's poorly written world. It is well shot, and well acted. The story is weak, the theme of the film is simplistic, the characters are static, and the movie is more or less two hours of homoerotic pornography for the eternally repressed young boy in every metaphoric locker room across the nation.

That said, it's very well made, and the first act is great. It's a shame all the good flies out when the fighting starts and the vague nihilism/beat-people-up syndrome sets in.

[scorpionldr]

ehh I don't think it's drivel.
everyone's approach to abandoning society is different. And these films, through that concept, are made unique, yet the SAME

[scorpionldr]

btw, Deniro has a TON of mournful BS about society (the degenerate descriptions) and how Betsy abandoned him (yet it's kind of funny, he's such a stupid character in bringing her to a porno, yet he can comprehend everything else in society that is wrong)

[Deluge Of Sound]

While I can see your point, hazy as it may be, I would be hesitant in linking Taxi Driver and Fight Club. The themes are different; Travis Bickle didn't want to abandon society, he wanted to save it. Tyler Durden wants to burn the world down. Travis Bickle didn't care about materialism, he cared about the crime and the filth. Tyler Durden was the repressed subconscious (the shadow, if you're down with Jung) of a capitalist success.

Natural Born Killers might be a better fit, given the "style over substance" filmmaking style and the unrepentant characters.

[scorpionldr]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

While I can see your point, hazy as it may be, I would be hesitant in linking Taxi Driver and Fight Club. The themes are different; Travis Bickle didn't want to abandon society, he wanted to save it. Tyler Durden wants to burn the world down. Travis Bickle didn't care about materialism, he cared about the crime and the filth. Tyler Durden was the repressed subconscious (the shadow, if you're down with Jung) of a capitalist success.

Natural Born Killers might be a better fit, given the "style over substance" filmmaking style and the unrepentant characters.

Bickle a good samaritan?? The only thing he made a move on was the 12 year old prostitute, because he saw his surroundings were too far currupted to save, but he coudl give the youth more time to learn and reflect by killing off all the contaminants she encountered. sure, Tyler Durden wanted all that, what about the protagonist tho??

[Jared Lash]

Taxi Driver.

By a wide margin.

[Baryonyx]

But then this one is better than both of them...

[kherber]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

Lately I've been watching these two in alternation, and I must say, fight club plays like taxi driver without the real priority protagonist....anyone agree?

That's a couple of my favorite movies (as is Falling Down). But I'd never really thought to compare them.

Certainly there's a similarity, each with a protagonist slowly coming unglued. Both have somewhat enigmatic endings. But lots of differences, too.

Bickle is an under-educated social outcast and loner whose anger with a society he views corrupt unhinges his mind. He attempts shocking violence against a political candidate, is thwarted, and turns his anger on others. In the end he's hailed as a hero, though he's truly not. It's a grim and gritty film, commenting on society as a whole.

Fight Club struck me as an uproarious comedy. I laugh every time I watch it. While the 'message' in Taxi Driver is comparatively clear, Fight Club not so much.

Some fans of Fight Club took the message as "Hey! Let's start a Fight Club!" Huh? Others thought the message "Hey! Let's blow up society!" Again, not really, IMHO.

I particularly enjoyed Fight Club because, back in the mid-80s I started complaining about what I called the Bubble Generation (later dubbed Generation X). What I saw was a generation of young men being raised with no direction, no sense of self, no real sense of 'manhood (whatever that means) groomed and trained to lead safe, socially correct lives. Don't take any risks. Don't do anything wild. Just plan your life out through college and up through retirement. Buy things, because owning things proves you are...?

The movie, and Gen Xer author Pahluniak's take on things twenty years later tickled the s*** out of me. Lines like "We're a generation of men raised by women," hit the mark.

If I were to assign a message to the movie, I'd say it's a cautionary tale. If young men don't spend some time going out and acting like young men (sometimes risky behavior, sometimes socially unacceptable) they'll become repressed, and ill. In the worst, extreme case scenario, you have Edward Norton experiencing a complete personality split, and tearing down society.

And the twist ending caught me by surprise, which made the movie worth watching all over again.

Just for the record, I'm an old ****. I saw both these movies when they were first released.

Doc

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

Bickle a good samaritan?? The only thing he made a move on was the 12 year old prostitute, because he saw his surroundings were too far currupted to save, but he coudl give the youth more time to learn and reflect by killing off all the contaminants she encountered. sure, Tyler Durden wanted all that, what about the protagonist tho??

Spoiler:
Tyler Durden is the protagonist. I'm talking about both Edward Norton and Brad Pitt when I say "Tyler Durden."

And yes, I stick by the idea that Travis Bickle was, at heart, a good Samaritan.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by kherber

Fight Club struck me as an uproarious comedy. I laugh every time I watch it. While the 'message' in Taxi Driver is comparatively clear, Fight Club not so much.

Some fans of Fight Club took the message as "Hey! Let's start a Fight Club!" Huh? Others thought the message "Hey! Let's blow up society!" Again, not really, IMHO.

I particularly enjoyed Fight Club because, back in the mid-80s I started complaining about what I called the Bubble Generation (later dubbed Generation X). What I saw was a generation of young men being raised with no direction, no sense of self, no real sense of 'manhood (whatever that means) groomed and trained to lead safe, socially correct lives. Don't take any risks. Don't do anything wild. Just plan your life out through college and up through retirement. Buy things, because owning things proves you are...?

The movie, and Gen Xer author Pahluniak's take on things twenty years later tickled the s*** out of me. Lines like "We're a generation of men raised by women," hit the mark.

If I were to assign a message to the movie, I'd say it's a cautionary tale. If young men don't spend some time going out and acting like young men (sometimes risky behavior, sometimes socially unacceptable) they'll become repressed, and ill. In the worst, extreme case scenario, you have Edward Norton experiencing a complete personality split, and tearing down society.

Doc

I think you've made a really intelligent post, and I totally commend you for that. In the world of film, it is too easy for people to buy into the temptation to say "Well, I like it, and it's all opinions anyway." There are so many problems with that mindset that I can't go into them all, but suffice it to say that you've done a great job in supporting your points.

Furthermore, I agree with you, but only as far as the first act is concerned. As far as I can tell, the Smart Satire And Savage Wittm go out the door when the Fight Club actually starts. But that's me, and this is you, we're entitled to enjoy different things, as long as we can understand why we're enjoying them.

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

That said, it's very well made, and the first act is great. It's a shame all the good flies out when the fighting starts and the vague nihilism/beat-people-up syndrome sets in.

While male empowerment is a big theme in the movie, the book is about nihilism and a person who "fights the system" only to find that he himself makes a system that is just as bad or even worse. That meaning was lost in the movie. The fact that so many men want to be Tyler Durden or start a fight club after watching the movie says a lot about how much the movie overglorified those aspects.

I remember passing by a garage one day and seeing a group of guys in a circle in what appeared to be something straight out of Fight Club. I just laughed and went on my way.

Strangely enough I've never seen Taxi Driver. It's always been on my list of movies to watch along with Straw Dogs. Guess now is a better time than ever to watch both this week.

[Jeremy Crockett]

Taxi Driver > Fight Club

/thread

[BassManPatsFan]

Originally Posted by OctoberMooN

Taxi Driver > Fight Club

/thread

+∞

[kherber]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

I think you've made a really intelligent post, and I totally commend you for that. In the world of film, it is too easy for people to buy into the temptation to say "Well, I like it, and it's all opinions anyway." There are so many problems with that mindset that I can't go into them all, but suffice it to say that you've done a great job in supporting your points.

Furthermore, I agree with you, but only as far as the first act is concerned. As far as I can tell, the Smart Satire And Savage Wittm go out the door when the Fight Club actually starts. But that's me, and this is you, we're entitled to enjoy different things, as long as we can understand why we're enjoying them.

Well, thank you. I'm a writer, as well as a musician. One of the key tricks of the writing trade is to always sound intellient, even if you're not.

And I agree with you, sir. I saw the movie at the theatre and wasn't sure what to think. I enjoyed it, but I was unsure if I was supposed to be taking sides--and unclear about which side to take. Listening to the commentary on the DVD, it became more evident how the filmmakers--Fincher, Norton, and Pitt--viewed the story. Norton's comment, referring to the group living and working in the Paper Street house: "This is what happens when a bunch of frat boys start taking themselves too seriously" kind of sums it up.

Whether the filmmakers failed to make the point they intended, or intentionally left it murky and at the viewers' discretions, is hard to guess.

Doc

[scorpionldr]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Spoiler:
Tyler Durden is the protagonist. I'm talking about both Edward Norton and Brad Pitt when I say "Tyler Durden."

And yes, I stick by the idea that Travis Bickle was, at heart, a good Samaritan.

yea......I'm gonna have to say I just disagree.....I think narcissism plays a big role in uniting the two protagonists as well as dividing them.

I think Ed Norton's empty "protagonist" role is not really Tyler Durden......Tyler Durden is the extremes of the protagonist's imaginations in what he feels about life. The protagonist is simply, like Travis, an abandoner of society (I'll get to Travis in a bit). In abandonment of society, I mean the protagonist (it'd be so much easier if I just gave up and said Tyler Durden, wouldn't it? ) wants to give up his white collar, material consumed and obsessive lifestyle. It reflects in everything he's doing, hating on his boss for his boss's love of the texture of "cornflower blue" (a commercial color), to his condo where he purchases unique tables, glasses, furniture, decorations so that he can identify himself through what he owns. Durden is simply connected with this, because on the grand scale, the REASON he's blowing up the "world", as you call it, which is really just the local banking corporations, is because with no money, there IS no profit, there IS no consumerism, THERE IS NO CORNFLOWER BLUE. Life goes back to the enriched basics of waking up, making a meal, doing some work, coming home, having a meal, going to sleep and doing it all over again. Going to sleep was the extinguished part of the protagonists life, as he was obsessing over his job, his "duty" to make sure that any dangerous cars would not be available to the public. This is sort of what the movie is about.

Travis, on the other hand, is the same way...but only he chooses to not sleep until after his "mission" was over. He refutes commercialism. He hardly watches TV, he goes to the same restaurant over and over again because there is nothing presentable about it, he buys a record for Betsy knowing she'd like it, but not taking any interest himself in indulging in the record, and goes to the pornos offered at the local theater because it's one of his only forms of relief. He frowns on the popular society where people are acting oppositely of him, always insisting on going for the greater gain in whatever form it may be. He only does true business when he has to (the taxi driving is just an excuse to not go to sleep). He's very disconnected in commercial life as well as life in society. All he does through killing Iris's pimps is 1. Save Iris from living the "degenerate" life that Travis is constantly exposed to, and 2. Send out a message to the viewer and his society that there IS someone watching this degeneracy, it's only a matter of time until he or someone like him cracks again to make a strike on society to gain the silence he needs to sleep (his coma).

[*smb]

Neither film did that much for me. An unreliable narrator is not a plot twist, it's a tried and tested method of insulting the wit of the audience.

[scorpionldr]

Originally Posted by Chris2112

But then this one is better than both of them...

saw it. "society did me wrong". The end.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by kherber

Well, thank you. I'm a writer, as well as a musician. One of the key tricks of the writing trade is to always sound intellient, even if you're not.

And I agree with you, sir. I saw the movie at the theatre and wasn't sure what to think. I enjoyed it, but I was unsure if I was supposed to be taking sides--and unclear about which side to take. Listening to the commentary on the DVD, it became more evident how the filmmakers--Fincher, Norton, and Pitt--viewed the story. Norton's comment, referring to the group living and working in the Paper Street house: "This is what happens when a bunch of frat boys start taking themselves too seriously" kind of sums it up.

Whether the filmmakers failed to make the point they intended, or intentionally left it murky and at the viewers' discretions, is hard to guess.

Doc

As a fellow professional writer, I've got to say the fact that you misspelled intelligent in your first paragraph was hysterical, clever, and well done all at once.

I'll have to find a copy of the DVD and check out that commentary one of these days.

[Lesfunk]

CADDYSHACK! FTW!!!!