Training a dog

[armywalaby]

I'm trying to train my dog not to eat human food when she sees it. She'll either eat out of the trashcan when I'm not around or if I walk out of the room for a sec with a burger on the table she'll eat it. I punish her by putting her outside for a day, but she doesn't learn. Any tips?

Soldiers were never this hard...

[Gard]

Originally Posted by armywalaby

I'm trying to train my dog not to eat human food when she sees it. She'll either eat out of the trashcan when I'm not around or if I walk out of the room for a sec with a burger on the table she'll eat it. I punish her by putting her outside for a day, but she doesn't learn. Any tips?

Soldiers were never this hard...

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Buy the first book.

Some of it seems a bit "hokey/spiritual", but the psychology behind almost every bit of it is correct, and WORKS.

You cannot train a dog like a soldier, they are different creatures, and have different responses to input. Dogs are pack animals, you have to treat them accordingly, humans are closer to herd animals than pack animals.

[Dosed_Mind]

I agree on reading some books on the matter, there should be a lot out there.
However i would like to point out that some of the stuff that Cesar Millan does, have been criticised by other dog trainers(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan), and judging from his TV show, it does seem that some of the methods require a large understanding of the dogs nature to execute without causing more harm than good(the "alpha roll" and the like).
I'd say that important keywords in training a dog is consequence and consistency. You have to be sure that the dog is told "no" exactly when it does what its not supposed to do, every time. Otherwise it wont know what it did wrong, and might become frustrated.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by Dosed_Mind

I agree on reading some books on the matter, there should be a lot out there.
However i would like to point out that some of the stuff that Cesar Millan does, have been criticised by other dog trainers(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan), and judging from his TV show, it does seem that some of the methods require a large understanding of the dogs nature to execute without causing more harm than good(the "alpha roll" and the like).
I'd say that important keywords in training a dog is consequence and consistency. You have to be sure that the dog is told "no" exactly when it does what its not supposed to do, every time. Otherwise it wont know what it did wrong, and might become frustrated.

Consistency is an absolute, you can NEVER relent once a rule or boundary is set.

As for criticism of Cesar Millan's methods, I can attest from direct experience with both my dogs and with some other very large/aggressive dogs that I've helped friends with, they WORK.

Positive reinforcement is wonderful, but it doesn't always work. I've never harmed a single creature using the methods I use, and think they are actually quite good for the dogs, because it works within the species own pack mentality framework. You DO have to "alpha roll" a dog from time to time, but doing it right is not going to harm them. If you don't know what you're doing DON'T DO IT, however, because it can be dangerous to both the dog and to you.

[buzzbass]

Originally Posted by Gard

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Buy the first book.

Some of it seems a bit "hokey/spiritual", but the psychology behind almost every bit of it is correct, and WORKS.

You cannot train a dog like a soldier, they are different creatures, and have different responses to input. Dogs are pack animals, you have to treat them accordingly, humans are closer to herd animals than pack animals.

I concur with Gard. I have 2 bassets. The 1st one was like the tazmanian devil, until I took him to a trainer. Now he's a model citizen, $900 later. With the 2nd basset, I tried the methods the trainer taught me, with mixed results. On a lark, I got Ceasar's 1st book. I tried some of his methods and strategies and, they're working much better on Jackass #1. Look in the bassists with dogs thread, if need the meaning behind the Jackass reference.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by Gard

Consistency is an absolute, you can NEVER relent once a rule or boundary is set.

In all the years I've worked at the SPCA and as a Vet Tech, I think that is the most important aspect of the training process.

[bongomania]

Important thing to know: You cannot teach a dog by "punishing" him more than a few seconds after the event occurred. If a few seconds have passed, the dog's mind has moved on to new things, and he will not make the association between your punishment and the thing he did that you wanted to correct.

You have to be right there, on it, at the moment, in order for the correction to mean anything to the dog.

So what you can do about the "human food" problem is something one dog training book calls "the big OFF". Gather some pots and metal utensils for making a big loud noise. Put some nice burger or other human food on a plate, and set it down on the floor. As soon as the dog gets his nose close to the plate, yell "OFFF!!!!" in a big deep scary voice, while banging pots and pans loudly. The dog will freak out and back away. Then he'll probably come back for a second go at the burger. Watch him, and scare the bejeezus out of him again, the very second his nose gets too close to the plate.

If you do that a few times over the course of two or three days, he will learn.

Edit/PS: It works best if you hide around the corner or behind a couch or something, so the dog can't see you as he approaches the plate. That way he gets the idea that he will be scared away even if "you're not there".

[lousybassplayer]

That dog whisperer guy sounds hokey and all (the show is ridiculous) but I have seen some of the techniques in action and they do work.

I have trained all my dogs myself, the key is to react to everything they do quickly and consistantly. They learn everything from reactive memory. Use the same commands, the same level of reward/punishment and avoid nicknames or multisyllabic commands. Over time the dog will do what its supposed to without thinking about it.

[HailCorduroy]

Teach your dog "leave it". Mine picked it up in about 30 minutes over a few days. Get a handful of small treats and get down on the floor with her. Put a treat on the floor and cover it with your hand and say "leave it." Remove your hand and if she goes for the treat, cover it back up and say "leave it." Keep doing it until she hesitates after you move your hand, then immediately give her a treat from your other hand and praise. Keep doing, working up to not treating her until she looks at you while the treat is on the floor. Hold her gaze for a second and treat. At the start, never let her have the treat that is on the ground, always give one from your other hand. Eventually, you can, just not at the start. Now, my dog waits until I say "ok", then she knows she can take the treat. I can put a piece of cheese (her favorite) on top of her front paws and tell her to leave it and she'll look at me until I say "ok".

If I'm leaving food in the room, I just put my hand over it and say leave it and she will. If you are having a problem with her taking human food, it's a good idea to never feed her human food, even for a treat. I was pretty strict with mine for a while and she wouldn't even really look at food on a plate. But my ex-gf started spoiling her and now she eyeballs everything I have.

[Petebass]

Originally Posted by armywalaby

I'm trying to train my dog not to eat human food when she sees it. She'll either eat out of the trashcan when I'm not around or if I walk out of the room for a sec with a burger on the table she'll eat it. I punish her by putting her outside for a day, but she doesn't learn. Any tips?

Soldiers were never this hard...

You're thinking like a human. You're going to have to start thinking like a dog before you can get anywhere.

My dogs will think about grabbing my food like all dogs do. But they'll never touch it, and if they get a bit too close all I have to do is say "No!" and they back up 6 feet immediately......

We paid good money to get a dog trainer to come to our place and found that 80%-90% of it was training the owners rather than the dogs. By the end of it all, I became the leader of the pack. Dogs are pack animals and if they're even going to listen to you, you have to establish a hierarchy that has the dogs below you in the pecking order. In the wild, the leader of the pack always eats first and the other dogs only eat what the leader allows them to eat. If the dog is eating your food, he clearly sees himself as being higher then you in the pecking order. The question becomes why?

I'll bet money you're feeding your dog before the humans in the house feed themselves? I'm also pretty confident you're occasionally giving the dog food from YOUR plate? Those puppy-dog eyes are hard to resist, but it's sending all the wrong signals if you let them get to you.

Once you get the hierarchy sorted, training becomes much easier. The Big Off will actually be pretty easy to teach, and you'll be able to use positive reinforcement to get your dogs behaving. Treats definitely work, but by this stage a lot of dogs are so desperate for your approval that affection is often reward enough......

[MJ5150]

Lots of people seem big on punishing dogs until the dog behaves the way the owner wants it to. Of equal, or even more, importance is positive reinforcement. Once the dog recognizes you as the leader, it wants nothing more in life than to please its master.

Giving the dog food and a safe place to live does not translate to "approval" in the mind of a dog. You need to verbally praise and reward your dog when it does what you want.

So rather than waiting around for the dog to make a mistake so it can be hit or punish it, people should teach them to do what they want and reward generously

-Mike

[bongomania]

Very true, but if there is a specific thing you want it not to do, you can't just randomly praise every second that it's not doing that one thing. I'm not saying that's what you were suggesting; only pointing out that "just praise" is incomplete the same way "just punishment" is.

[MJ5150]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Very true, but if there is a specific thing you want it not to do, you can't just randomly praise every second that it's not doing that one thing. I'm not saying that's what you were suggesting; only pointing out that "just praise" is incomplete the same way "just punishment" is.

Gotcha. Good point.

-Mike

[Gard]

Mike, good point, but as Bongo points out, there is a time and place for positive reinforcement.

The thing MOST people do is neglect the necessary order of the three important things in being a dog's caretaker:

1) Exercise - PLEASE walk your dog DAILY. Throwing a ball around, or watching them chase squirrels in the backyard is NOT the same thing. They need organized activity, walking is BONDING. Also, being dragged down the street is NOT walking, make sure you teach (discipline) your dog/s to walk as a PACK with YOU as their leader (i.e. the dog is either beside or slightly behind you, NOT in front). This is the single most important thing you can do, it cannot be overemphasised. If you can't do a daily walk, and be at least 90% consistent with it, you probably shouldn't have a dog.

2) Discipline - Make sure the dog understands its place in the pack, and that YOU are the alpha. This does not equate to any kind of abuse, just calm, firm, and confidently defining the roles. Raising your voice, yelling, being overly demonstrative, all those types of responses are useless, they create fear or worse disrespect ("...my pack leader is insane, therefore, I must assert control to bring the pack to balance!").

3) Affection - Yes, you have to show your joy at having your pack with you, it is imperative that they understand you love them, and that they make you as happy as you make them. However, never let this take precedence over either 1 or 2.

It's been pointed out by a few trainers that MOST Americans do this in the exact reverse order, and I've certainly observed just this fact, sadly.

I've practiced this with my dogs since they were pups, and they are very well-balanced, very happy, and VERY affectionate. TBer Eric618 has been around 'em, and can confirm that they are just as I state.

...'scuse me, it's time to take 'em for their morning walk right now!

[DanRJBrasil]

as posted, dog whisperer for sure

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by Gard

...TBer Eric618 has been around 'em, and can confirm that they are just as I state. ...

True story.