United breaks guitars

[bmc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

[MJ5150]

I like United Airlines.

-Mike

[Joe Gress]

It worked. Somewhat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_X-Qoh__mw

I'm starting to like this guy.

[hover]

I'll say the same thing here that I've said on other forums regarding this claim and video:

Unless the Taylor was in an ATA flight case, you have no claim and no recourse. AND Dave Carrol, you spent more money on studio time and on that video making yourself look like an ass than it would have cost for a proper flight case.

That said, I do not condone the handling practices of luggage monkeys, but really, at least even the odds a little for your expensive instrument. My friend John Donovan had the exact scenario with his Taylor TWELVE string, where he literally saw the ata case BOUNCE on the tarmac as he was waiting in the terminal, and when he inspected the instrument later, all 12 strings were in tune.

[bassrique]

Janek Gwizdala had his Fodera mangled by ......... darn, forgot the airline but not the story. The apes removed the partition of a double bass case so that the P Bass dug holes in the Fodera. Good Lord.

That's a problem when traveling with multiple basses, as you have to check at least one.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by hover

I'll say the same thing here that I've said on other forums regarding this claim and video:

Unless the Taylor was in an ATA flight case, you have no claim and no recourse. AND Dave Carrol, you spent more money on studio time and on that video making yourself look like an ass than it would have cost for a proper flight case.

That said, I do not condone the handling practices of luggage monkeys, but really, at least even the odds a little for your expensive instrument. My friend John Donovan had the exact scenario with his Taylor TWELVE string, where he literally saw the ata case BOUNCE on the tarmac as he was waiting in the terminal, and when he inspected the instrument later, all 12 strings were in tune.

i disagree......in days gone by i've shipped lots of delicate items by rail and road including guitars in nothing but their standard hard shell cases and never until recently had a claim.it is the carriers who have no real competition any more that feel no need to use any care when handling customer goods......

mr carrol has done everyone who plans to ship/check an instrument a great service at his own expense.....i doubt very much that throwing expensive instruments around would constitute proper handling,and it is the carrier alone that is to blame.....why should ones expensive ata case be bouncing on any tarmac anyway.......

[hover]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

it is the carriers who have no real competition any more that feel no need to use any care when handling customer goods.....

Well, DHL, Fed Ex and UPS are in competition with each other, and it's really up to the customers to let them know and stick it where it hurts by DEMANDING better service. It's as much customer passiveness as it is people on the other end not caring or not having the time to care due to the sheer volume, which is where the preventitive measures on the sender's end come in. Be it with excessive packaging or excess insurance on the item.

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

mr carrol has done everyone who plans to ship/check an instrument a great service at his own expense.....i doubt very much that throwing expensive instruments around would constitute proper handling,and it is the carrier alone that is to blame.....why should ones expensive ata case be bouncing on any tarmac anyway.......

Well, to this I said:

"That said, I do not condone the handling practices of luggage monkeys, but really, at least even the odds a little for your expensive instrument."

I am not excusing the handlers, but let's work within reality. It happens. Repeatedly. Doesn't make it one iota okay, but again, even your odds or tip them in your favor, I always say. Mr. Carroll only did one service by bringing to light his lack of due dilligence, which should do nothing but serve as a WARNING to anyone else not preparing for the worst in such a scenario.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by hover

Well, DHL, Fed Ex and UPS are in competition with each other, and it's really up to the customers to let them know and stick it where it hurts by DEMANDING better service. It's as much customer passiveness as it is people on the other end not caring or not having the time to care due to the sheer volume, which is where the preventitive measures on the sender's end come in. Be it with excessive packaging or excess insurance on the item.



Well, to this I said:

"That said, I do not condone the handling practices of luggage monkeys, but really, at least even the odds a little for your expensive instrument."

I am not excusing the handlers, but let's work within reality. It happens. Repeatedly. Doesn't make it one iota okay, but again, even your odds or tip them in your favor, I always say. Mr. Carroll only did one service by bringing to light his lack of due dilligence, which should do nothing but serve as a WARNING to anyone else not preparing for the worst in such a scenario.

dhl ,fed ex ,ups know that anyone angry with them has few options other than each other and any customers lost will be made up from the po'd customers from the others....this "competition" pales in comparison with the hundreds of ltl (less than truckload) companies that used to exist......sure stuff happens,but it should not happen often........the reality is that they don't care if your stuff breaks.......more incentive to pay extra for insurance,packing.....three or four major carriers is not competition,its a monopoly...

...the customer is paying for the safe transport of his goods and is not receiving the service he paid for......why would we have to take all these steps to protect ourselves from fed ex et al if there was any real competition out there.....we would simply go to the guy that doesn't smash our stuff.......ups just smashed my road case.....i guess i should have had an ata case built for my ata case

[hover]

Well all I do have to say is, even "back in the day" when there were a plethora of ltl services to choose from they still had ATA flight cases. Obviously this isn't a new phenomena. There is a reason they have existed all this time, and it goes beyond a couple luggage monkeys or big mean brown truck drivers. It's called preventative measure and it's there for those who think it's worth it. Whether you think it's worth it or feel it's necessary is secondary.

That said, ok, UPS smashed your road case. How were the contents inside afterward? That is the issue. Not trying to be a jerk or Mr. Obvious here, just sayin. If the contents were fine after, job well done. I have had the same ATA Jazz Bass case for 15 years. Sure it's scuffed up,and assorted corner pock marks... But I've yet to have any internal damage after a flight, and don't suspect I ever will... Worth it to me.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by hover

Well all I do have to say is, even "back in the day" when there were a plethora of ltl services to choose from they still had ATA flight cases. Obviously this isn't a new phenomena. There is a reason they have existed all this time, and it goes beyond a couple luggage monkeys or big mean brown truck drivers. It's called preventative measure and it's there for those who think it's worth it. Whether you think it's worth it or feel it's necessary is secondary.

That said, ok, UPS smashed your road case. How were the contents inside afterward? That is the issue. Not trying to be a jerk or Mr. Obvious here, just sayin. If the contents were fine after, job well done. I have had the same ATA Jazz Bass case for 15 years. Sure it's scuffed up,and assorted corner pock marks... But I've yet to have any internal damage after a flight, and don't suspect I ever will... Worth it to me.

......how much is your scuffed up ata jazz case worth compared to new.......road cases are not and should not be cause for baggage handlers to beat on your stuff........the road case i had was being shipped to me with a rack drawer...... i had just purchased both items and they were in a cardboard box......the impact would prolly have done some internal damage to any electronics had there been any.....

and...no that is not the issue....my road case is every bit my property as anything else and i do not accept that i must provide carriers with sacrificial cases to limit the damage done to whats inside them because they refuse to take reasonable care of my goods when that is what i am paying them for.......

[bongomania]

United breaks guitars
Bass broken during airtrip? well...
United Breaks Guitars
United Breaks Guitars
YIKES! Don't fly UNITED
United Broke My Taylor Guitar
United Breaks Guitars
Does make a good point thou!
For anyone who's ever dealt with airline damage
United Breaks Guitars
Video - 'United Breaks Guitars'
United breaks guitars
Hell hath no fury like a songwriter scorned...

STOP IT ALREADY!

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

...I do not accept that I must provide carriers with sacrificial cases to limit the damage done to whats inside them because they refuse to take reasonable care of my goods when that is what i am paying them for...

Our so-called "ATA case," was created with a pseudo-official specification that stipulates such a case must be able to withstand a certain number of "typical" uses, but then is considered no longer capable of performing its role. That number of typical uses is 100 round trips. Check ATA spec 300, category 1.

Here is my case. The photo was taken after about 25 round trips. I have seen it THOWN onto a concrete apron from a height of about 4 feet by an American Airlines employee. The instrument inside was unharmed.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Our so-called "ATA case," was created with a pseudo-official specification that stipulates such a case must be able to withstand a certain number of "typical" uses, but then is considered no longer capable of performing its role. That number of typical uses is 100 round trips. Check ATA spec 300, category 1.

Here is my case. The photo was taken after about 25 round trips. I have seen it THOWN onto a concrete apron from a height of about 4 feet by an American Airlines employee. The instrument inside was unharmed.

i don't doubt that........but i want to know when dropping peoples items became normal practice for handling freight.... i worked as a truck driver both highway and city for years and even uncrated stuff arrived undamaged......even tho uncrated goods were shipped at risk dropping them on purpose was unheard of.....

[TOOL460002]

http://blog.joerogan.net/#

[janekbass]

I fly united almost exclusively. If I can't fly united, I'll make sure I only fly a Star Alliance member airline.

I NEVER! repeat NEVER! check my bass. It's hand luggage with me in the cabin no matter what, and anyone who honestly thinks they have more than a 60% chance of an undamaged instrument when checking it on any airline is kidding themselves. The few times in the past 5 or 6 years where I've had to check my instrument I either a) put the fodera in a steel anvil case that is good to be dropped from 2 or 3 stories up (it does weigh 50lbs on it's own though, but it's worth it) or b) when I have to take two or three basses with me for a record date or something I use a Fender flight case. And as was mentioned above here, some idiot at TSA "inspected" it without me there after I had checked it in, and didn't put it all back together properly to the bridge of a P bass rubbed up against the body of my fodera from LAX to JFK for 5 1/2 hours. Not a pleasant result as you can imagine.

Now I just travel with one bass as carry on. And if I have to take two I'll put one in the anvil case that no baggage handler monkey can mess with, and take the fodera as carry-on.

I have a friend who's GF is a flight attendant on United, and she showed me a letter all flight attendants at united received asking them to take special care of musicians who were carrying on instruments. The letter went on to explain that it's a musicians living in that carry on instrument, and wherever possible every accommodation should be made to ensure the safe passage of musical instruments. It is mainly for that reason that I try and fly exclusively with united and have never had an issue carrying on instruments.

Delta always have been, and generally continue to be one of the worst airlines for letting you carry on instruments. And Mike Stern was telling me a few nightmare stories with Quantas where they didn't actually let him take his guitar once.

I think, IMO, if you're a serious musician who really travels a lot by plane you have a few options:

1) try and fly exclusively with one airline or at least one programs of airlines such as star alliance. That way you know exactly what you're dealing with each time.
2) never check an instrument. It's a total drag to carry a flight case around whenever you get where you're going, it's heavy, you're going to pay excess baggage on some airlines etc etc etc
3) do neither of the above and just have an incredible ability to talk to people. You can pretty much talk your way into any situation if you have the chops for it, and being nice to check-in and gate staff at airports is worth ever such a lot.
4) if you're really traveling a lot an for some crazy reason want to check your instrument then spend the money on a decent flight case. You might end up spending close to $1000 for a really good one, but I think peace of mind is far better than the pain of going through a battered instrument.

I've also never understood why anyone with any kind of schedule to keep on the would ever risk checking their instrument anyway. What happens when the airline loses it? never mind about a beaten up instrument greeting you at your destination.... what about no instrument at all?!??!?!?!

I am on tours every year where there are regularly 5 or 6 shows in a row in 5 or 6 different cities, all of which have to be flown to. How do I show up somewhere with no instrument one night and play the gig? and then how do you coordinate with an airline in some foreign country where you don't speak the language, to get them to deliver it to your next destination. forget about it.

One huge bonus to sticking with a mileage program like star alliance for instance, is that once you're a gold member with star alliance you get certain huge perks when you travel. As a gold member I get three bags up to 75lbs on any star alliance flight free of charge, and carrying on the bass is never a problem, especially when you're getting upgraded at least 50% of the time for free just because of your mileage status. Flying business or first class means you rarely get bothered about anything.

Easy,

Janek