US court denies parents custody of Hitler and sisters

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by BBC.Co.Uk

US court denies parents custody of Hitler and sisters

A US appeals court has ruled a couple who gave their children Nazi-inspired names should not regain custody, citing the risk of serious injury to them.

Adolf Hitler Campbell, 4, and his sisters, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation, 3, and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie, 2, were taken from their New Jersey home in 2009.

The case first came to public attention in December 2008 after a shop refused to decorate a birthday cake for Adolf.

A family court had earlier found there was insufficient evidence of abuse.

But on Thursday, the appeals panel determined that social workers had proved the need for protective services for the three children.

The panel found that the parents, who both suffer from unspecified physical and psychological disabilities, had "recklessly created a risk of serious injury to their children by failing to protect the children from harm and failing to acknowledge and treat their disabilities".

The judges also noted that Deborah Campbell had recently passed a letter to a neighbour saying her husband had threatened "to have me killed or kill me himself".

The children's father, Heath Campbell, told the Associated Press last year that he believed they were taken into foster care because of their names.

He also alleged that the authorities had relied on unproven accusations made by a neighbour and his ex-wife.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10891733

[C.Linton]

Quite frankly, I have no sympathy for these "parents". Giving their kids names like that proves one thing - they're too stupid to have kids. Most definitely a case of abuse. What the hell did they expect?

[hover]

Just another case of irresponsible / ill equipped people breeding, and then using their children as subjects of controversy....there is NO WAY you can tell me that wasn't their intent the whole time. Always in denial. Always with the "wha? it's not ME...it's the SYSTEM that's wrong". Effing stupid.

Who ultimately pays? The kids. It sucks.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

"The panel found that the parents, who both suffer from unspecified physical and psychological disabilities"

Funnily enough, if the people this pair idolise were in power, they'd have likely been killed off.

Hopefully the kids can be renamed and grow up to live normal, healthy lives away from such hate.

[hover]

I fear alot of rehabilitation will be in order to "unlearn" everything these kids might have been conditionned to perceive as right...kids are impressionable innocent "sponges" at that age.

[Munjibunga]

For once the system works.

[Relic]

Well familiar with this case.
This is in Jersey and I've been following this one for a while now. I've even started a thread about this a year, maybe two years ago.
At first I was livid that children would be removed from their house simply due to their names. Idiotic parents, yes, but that's still not justification. Plus DYFS (Div of Youth and Family Services) here in this state has a loooong track record of of doing some of the most stupid things and removing the kids for such a reason would be par for course with them, as ludicrous as it sounds.
But as this case has been developing, I've changed my tune a bit. There's a lot of silence here but apparently the word here locally is that both parents are actually douchebags and there has been evidence of some physical abuses going on between the parents and towards the children.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Relic

Well familiar with this case.
This is in Jersey and I've been following this one for a while now. I've even started a thread about this a year, maybe two years ago.
At first I was livid that children would be removed from their house simply due to their names. Idiotic parents, yes, but that's still not justification. Plus DYFS (Div of Youth and Family Services) here in this state has a loooong track record of of doing some of the most stupid things and removing the kids for such a reason would be par for course with them, as ludicrous as it sounds.
But as this case has been developing, I've changed my tune a bit. There's a lot of silence here but apparently the word here locally is that both parents are actually douchebags and there has been evidence of some physical abuses going on between the parents and towards the children.

I though this was quite obvious from day one. DYFS did the right thing IMO.

[Relic]

Just reread my last post and thought I should clarify a little lest someone get the wrong idea - I do understand that there are folks here who might think that removing these kids based solely on their names would be ok for a variety of reasons. But I emphatically disagree - stupid parents, yeah. Ignorant, racist, pathetic, yeah.

But does that automatically make them bad parents? IMO, no, absolutely not.
They can still be very loving, very attentive and even though they may be spewing trash to these kids, tearing them away from a loving home would be far worse for the kids in the long run.

That said, the "word on the street" here is that these parents suck, if that's true then I support this.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

I though this was quite obvious from day one. DYFS did the right thing IMO.

No, no no, It was not as obvious as you might think. There were many many claims that these parents were being targeted for their beliefs alone and more than a few people applauding that.
I find their beliefs disgusting, but I also really really fear a gov't that can take kids for a parent's beliefs alone. That's a scary thing for me to wrap my brain around.

[becker4567]

These people may not be nuts, but they are certainly not fit parents. Can you imagine the burden of kids growing up with those names? Life for them will not be easy. And I assume the youngest ones middle name was supposed to be Himmler and not Hinler.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by becker4567

These people may not be nuts, but they are certainly not fit parents. Can you imagine the burden of kids growing up with those names? Life for them will not be easy. And I assume the youngest ones middle name was supposed to be Himmler and not Hinler.

Do you know for absolutely sure that they went by these names outside of their home?
Think about it - they could just as easy been "Adolph, Joyce-Lynn and Jeannie" in school, no? How would that be a burden?
Would that then warrant them being removed from their home and put with strangers?
Again - I do NOT condone the parent's beliefs.

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by Relic

Well familiar with this case.
This is in Jersey and I've been following this one for a while now. I've even started a thread about this a year, maybe two years ago.
At first I was livid that children would be removed from their house simply due to their names. Idiotic parents, yes, but that's still not justification. Plus DYFS (Div of Youth and Family Services) here in this state has a loooong track record of of doing some of the most stupid things and removing the kids for such a reason would be par for course with them, as ludicrous as it sounds.
But as this case has been developing, I've changed my tune a bit. There's a lot of silence here but apparently the word here locally is that both parents are actually douchebags and there has been evidence of some physical abuses going on between the parents and towards the children.

yeah, stories like these really blur the boundaries. i think it is makes sense to say that parents have the right to raise kids as they see fit and name them as they choose. and i am a big proponent of questioning social norms and poking at boundaries. but people like this really mess up those ideas.

and, maybe saddest of all, foster care can unfortunately be very destructive to a kid's life. i guess i support someone pushing limits if they do it to themselves. let the parents change their own names and make their social statement. putting that on their kids is cowardly and cruel.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Relic

No, no no, It was not as obvious as you might think. There were many many claims that these parents were being targeted for their beliefs alone and more than a few people applauding that.
I find their beliefs disgusting, but I also really really fear a gov't that can take kids for a parent's beliefs alone. That's a scary thing for me to wrap my brain around.

and scared you should be.....it's easy to jump on the pc bandwagon when it's nazi's etc, but now that the slippery slope has been entered,who will be next....i fear the unbridled powers of bureaucracy more than a couple of idiotic parents

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

and scared you should be.....it's easy to jump on the pc bandwagon when it's nazi's etc, but now that the slippery slope has been entered,who will be next....i fear the unbridled powers of bureaucracy more than a couple of idiotic parents

[Let It Fall]

For once, people made a decision based on morals. Thank God.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Let It Fall

For once, people made a decision based on morals. Thank God.

They were not taken away due to morals, they were taken away due to the potential of abuse.

But let's say that they were removed for moralistic reasons:
Who decides which morals are acceptable? Who now gets to determine what beliefs should warrant your kids being taken away? You don't find that scary?
Should we look then at the children of Muslim families because some of them somewhere may be preaching anti-Semitic hatred to their kids? What if they are and they name their child "Osama Bin Laden" now should that child be taken?
What about Christian fundamentalists? Many find homosexuality an abomination - take their kids too? See what I'm saying? WHERE do you stop and who decides which morals and bad and which are worse??

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by Relic

They were not taken away due to morals, they were taken away due to the potential of abuse.

But let's say that they were removed for moralistic reasons:
Who decides which morals are acceptable? Who now gets to determine what beliefs should warrant your kids being taken away? You don't find that scary?
Should we look then at the children of Muslims because some of them somewhere may be preaching anti-Semitic hatred to their kids? What if they are and they name their child "Osama Bin Laden" now should that child be taken?
What about Christian fundamentalists? Many find homosexuality an abomination - take their kids too? See what I'm saying? WHERE do you stop and who decides which morals and bad and which are worse??

yup, that is where it all gets relative. and while "abuse" seems like a good standard to judge (rather than "morals"), that too is not as fool-proof as it sounds.

it would not be hard to find a segment of our population who would argue that my kids should be taken from me due to the "abuse" i have caused them. i have made some controversial parenting choices. i would argue i was acting in my kids' best interests, but it is a matter of opinion.

there is no easy way out of stuff like this.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by EBodious

i have made some controversial parenting choices. i would argue i was acting in my kids' best interests, but it is a matter of opinion.

Feel free to opt out, as Im only asking as a point of discussion, and not to flame/criticize your parenting choices, but might you care to elaborate a little on these 'controversial parenting choices'?

[IconBasser]

I agree with Relic on this one. While preaching Nazism to their children is certainly not cool, if there isn't any corporeal evidence of abuse from the parents, I don't think the government has the right to forcibly evict these children just because it happens to not like what their parents are teaching them.

My parents certainly believe some un-politically correct stuff, which they proceeded to teach to me when I was growing up. Do I agree with it? No. Did I wish the government would rip me from my home for it? Absolutely not! It was still a good home to grow up in regardless.